The “knucklehead classless fans” edition:

Ajinca: built like a greyhound, talent of a turtle.

Alabi: soggy popcorn, hard sponges, running out of laundry detergent…..all less frustrating than this guy.

Barbosa: there are off nights and then there are nights like this. Still getting back into fighting shape and doing that against the Heat is a wee bit challenging.

Bargnani: he earned himself a month in the next firemans calendar tonight. He was faced with the best Raptor of all time most of the night and came out more than holding his own. The only thing missing was him making a “DX” motion every time he nailed a shot. 26 attempts is still just a tad crazy, though.

Bayless: his night was Khloe Kardashian ugly. Just not in a groove, didn’t help his team one iota and looked like he already had checked out for the allstar break. Brutally pathetic.

Calderon: he was the shovel to Andrea and DeMar’s fire. 14 assists, a hug for Chris, candies for the kids and tangos for the ladies. Rico Suave.

Davis: how this guy fell to us is beyond me….well, until he misses 2 months with an injury that will dog him for the rest of his career. An outstanding night for the rook in a game where he would have been allowed to be swallowed up in the hype.

DeRozan: his foes better be on notice in LA because he is heading to AllStar Weekend looking like he will take out all comers. An impressive night that finally proved to me that he is ready to hang with the big boys and also make them pay.

Dorsey: the only sniff of this game he got was of Joel’s jockstrap.

Evans: shame he wasn’t back tonight…it would have made an interesting Face vs Heel component.

A. Johnson: fought hard, left a lot of sweat on the floor, but came up short. In a way he seemed to be the one guy that really wanted to beat Bosh badly. He was a notch below his usual hustle, but still outshone all the bigs except for the rook.

T. Johnson: you give loooovvvveeee…..

Kleiza: if we had him healthy we would have won by 20!!!

Weems: you get more value and consistency from no-name glue you buy at Honest Ed’s than this guy. If you can name 3 redeeming qualities (other than looking like Joey Graham) about this guy, then you deserve to be mayor.

Wright: heading to Pearson and hopping on a plane to Cozumel for some real living. Hope he comes back healthy.

Driving The Bus: Andrea Bargnani

Under The Bus: Jerryd Bayless

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  • JezusP

    I agree with almost everything everything.

    Davis need to get more touches on offence in my opinion. It doesn’t seem like there is a single set play for him.

    I actually thought Ajinca played alright tonight. He’s so funny looking. His arms go down to his knees, LOL.

  • AlbertoDelRio

    Whooooaaaaa Ohhhhh, livin on a prayer.
    I dissagre, Ajinca was a big + in the 2nd half with all his rebounds and 6 quick points, future lookin bright tonight. Now if Bargnani only played some D. oh well , crowd should have had an “Akron hates you” chant as well.

    • AwesomeGuest

      “OV – ER – RATE – ED”

      “RU PAUL”

      I don’t think saying “Akron hates you” would be very effective against Bosh :p

  • Theswirsky

    disagree with a few things here.

    Thought Ajinca looked just fine out there. Nothing amazing but nothing bad either

    Amir was a beast. 5 blocks (+1 taken away by the refs) and 2 steals to go with 11 rebounds? Yeah his shots weren’t going down, but I thought he was the best player on teh floor for the Raps.

    Anyone still not believe that Bosh and Bargnani are pretty much the same? One has a little more range, the other actually gets to the FT line. Both get theirs on the score card, but provided nothing in the way of D or rebounding, both spend most of their time cruising the perimeter. Glad one is gone… can’t wait for the next to leave.

    • Anthony Feher

      Bargnani owned Bosh all night and seldom was matched on defence with him. The rebounds weren’t there, but he was not beaten for rebounds either. Yes you hate him, we get it, but that was a great game by him and 1-2 kind rims and the result could have been different.

      As for the roll call and being upset he took 26 shots!!!!! He got 38 points….. Seems pretty efficient to me….

      • 4 rebounds, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 0 assists, 3 turnovers. And no defense. Yes, he had a great scoring night, but it’s like a broken record here. It’s not his scoring that’s the problem. It’s literally everything else.

        • EuroPussy

          Unfortunately every time he gave the ball to other players (many times to Jose, DD, Amir) they missed their shot. Normally Bargs should have 5-6 assist tonight.

          • Well, the lack of assists were not really the problem. I’m critical, but I’m consistent. If Bargnani had played even average defense and on the boards, I’d be praising his game tonight.

            • EuroPussy

              5-6 assist = 10-12 points = W for the Raps = big party at raptorsepublic

            • C.d.G.

              Thank you for the complacency, Tim!
              Stupids like you, so full of themselves, are hard to cope with.
              I mean: 38 points! What’s wrong with that?
              You guys are crazy. Stone-headed!

              • Nilanka15

                Jamaal Crawford once scored 50 pts in a game. Big fucking deal…

              • The fact that you can’t debate without insulting pretty much negates any argument you attempted to put forth.

        • Milesboyer

          Most nights I would agree that Bargnani’s lack of a more well rounded game can’t make up for his scoring, but last night, that just wasn’t the case. Sure he could of done more but so could everyone else on the team. They lost to one of the best teams in the league by a small margin and gave up just over 100pts. Not bad for a team with a fraction of the talent of their opponent. Without Bargs, this game is an absolute blowout.

        • Dumbtroglodytes


          a combined 5-36

          and you bitch about bargs?

          tim and a very small minority of morons are just louder then most sane raptor fans.

          thank u bargs, dd and ed for showin up.u did us proud.

    • Giolondon999

      If Bargs was playin with the Heat and we had still Bosh they would have won by 40 points!!!

      • Nilanka15

        Hahahaha, you post that like it’s fact. Pat Riley doesn’t care about defense, right?

        • Toshmon2

          bosh don’t play defence

          • Nilanka15

            Bosh plays mediocre defense. Bargnani plays record setting, historically bad defense.

  • WhatWhat

    It’s really annoying watching Black Swan play like that. He could do that offensively all the time if he truly wanted too. Also he still only got four boards-you can’t just ignore that. And the help D was still poor. (In the 4th, towards the end LBJ and Wade drove and Bargs was nowhere to be found.) We can’t succeed with him as a starter, but he had an excellent game.

    Bayless, Calderon, Blur and Weems were garbage? Why didn’t JuJu play? He couldn’t have possibly been worse on offense then Weems, and he’s a better defender. Shit, I literally forgot Weems was on the court most of the time.

    • John

      The Haters hating even after the guy put the team on his back and carried them. LOOOOL, It must suck to be a hater.

      Where is Tim and Liston to add some numbers to show how effective is Amir versus AB ?

      Lets face it boys, AB proved you all wrong with his performance during the last 5-6 games and made you eat your word.

      • Webcrawler89

        I would hardly say that just because he scored 38 he carried us alone on his back. If anything, I would say that for a good while defensively, AJ and ED and DD shared the load with him. He needs to play better defense still, just like jose needs to, and weems needs to, and bayless needs to.

      • Anthony Feher

        Face it a # on this board seem to think get rid of AB, bring in a banger and we’ll win 76-72 every game….. It’s laughable that he can do no right…. Anyone watch close as to how many boards he was out muscled/hustled for? The point was Bosh had 6 boards Ilguskus had 0 and Chalmers 3, which were three that he was covering much of the night, so basically no one had boards….. LeBron, Wade & Dampier had the majority and who was covering them?

        • Webcrawler89

          Yeah it’s really not all boards. Bargnani’s help defense is pretty bad too, there were several plays where either Lebron and Wade were driving into the paint and Bargs didn’t even rotate to try to help out.

          Also, he’s 7-fuckin-foot-tall, to get a rebound, all he has to do is put his hands up.

          What’s really laughable are the people who continue to look at one aspect of Bargnani’s game and think he’s great. I think he’s ok, by no means do I think we should just trade him asap, but that doesn’t mean I’m gonna let his defensive deficiencies slide. IF he wants to be a starter, nay, a franchise player, then he needs to get his game together on both sides of the court.

          • Sek99

            We know Bargs can score. The hurtful part is the effort he gives in big games (vs. Bosh, Aldrige, in New York) where he gives a shit and tries, than most others sleeps until the fourth. Forget everything else, from rebounding to defense, the lack of effort on most nights is the worst part. He had a great offensive game tonight, but not putting effort on a consistent basis doesn’t let one game, or even ten, redeem you until you consistently give it your all.

        • “The point was Bosh had 6 boards Ilguskus had 0 and Chalmers 3, which were three that he was covering much of the night, so basically no one had boards”

          Wow, wrong on all accounts there. Bargnani barely covered Bosh (that was mostly Amir and Davis), Ilgauskus played only 12 minutes and Chalmers is their PG, so I highly doubt he was playing him much. Dampier, who he WAS defending, grabbed 10 boards in just 28 minutes.

          Besides, the point is not how many your man gets, but if you get 4 rebounds (and you’re 7 feet) and your team is outrebounded by 8, that tells me that you weren’t doing your job out there. Especially since the two other Raptor big man grabbed double digits in A LOT less time.

          Bargnani had a great scoring night. You want to focus on that, fine. But that’s the only area he played well. For some, that’s fine.

          • Toshmon2

            The rebounding #s tell you more on an aggregated basis than in a single game. The #s show that Ed Davis was a beast on the boards but they don’t show you that he grabbed one board out of bounds while taking it away from a teammate or every other board that Jose Calderon doesn’t jump for because he doesn’t want to be levelled by Davis (or Reggie, or Bosh in the past, etc.). If you watch a game you don’t really need the rebounding #s to tell you what happened.

            • That’s true. Unfortunately, I also watched the game and saw that Bargnani rarely cared about rebounding and was a liability on the defensive end nearly the entire time he was on the court.

              Great shooting night, though.

              • Toshmon2

                “Besides, the point is not how many your man gets, but if you get 4 rebounds (and you’re 7 feet) and your team is outrebounded by 8, that tells me that you weren’t doing your job out there.”

                In framing the argument the way you did, you play in to the stats-only guys. 3 more uncontested boards dropping into his hands should not have turned this into an acceptable (for bargs) night. It’s about the quality of the effort as your later post noted.

      • WhatWhat

        “During the last 5-6 games”

        Way to ignore his MASSIVE slump (or like, the rest of the season) before that AND the fact that I still said that he had an excellent game. But keep dreaming up these non-existent agendas. And I’m not a fucking hater, stop with that shit. People get criticized for a reason. Bayless is my favourite player on team, but he has occasional tunnel vision and has been playing poorly lately? He played like crap today. Am I butthurt about it? No. Bargs was my favourite player on the team for a long, long time and I still believed in the guy during his 2nd year.

        We’re supposed to ignore that he had no boards in the first half because he scored a lot? We’re supposed to IGNORE that he’s regressed defensively and on the boards? Especially when he was already one of the worst rebounders EVER for his size? You all keep pointing to the offense, but he simply isn’t showing enough defensively to have him starting. In the long run, we are going to have to move him to the bench/seriously cut his minutes or trade him. Come back when he has a good defensive game. Jump up and scream when he consistently plays passable D and rebounds worth a damn.

        The fact is that he does not have the core forward skills needed to succeed with him as a starter, and he does not and never will score consistently well enough to make up for it. But I hope that I’m wrong, I really do.

      • How on earth has Bargnani proven me (and others) wrong with his performance during the last 5-6 games? I’m sometimes accused of only seeing what I want to see, but at least I watch both ends.

        In the last 5 games, Bargnani has average 4.6 rpg, 0 bpg, 0.4 spg and 2.6 tpg, but the only thing you apparently see is the scoring (29 ppg). Those numbers would be great if he were a guard. But he’s not. And he had only one game where he wasn’t a complete liability on defense.

        Against Miami,one of the big threes Bargnani hit was followed literally seconds later by Wade getting a layup right in front of Bargnani who did nothing to stop it. That’s the problem with Bargnani. Sure, you get a lot of points, but a lot of those points are given away on the other end of the court.

        Amir couldn’t hit a shot, but at least he grabbed rebounds and defended out there.

        I seriously don’t understand how someone can love basketball and not care about defense. I really don’t. Then again, I’ve played with loads of guys who didn’t have a clue, either, and wondered why their teams rarely won.

        • Cleves25

          Mate, you just stated that Amir had bad night offensively, yet made up for it with good D and rebounding. In that case Bargs had a bad night defensively, yet made up for it with an amazing offensive performance. You cannot deny that this guy got game, but praising Amir because he played good D and pulling Bargs apart because of average defense isnt that fair. he kept us in the game, whilst Amir had no efect, if he hadnt rebounded, someone else would have. this game wasnt and couldnt have been won on defense alone, so i feel bargs was definately up to par tonight aswell as other nights. not hating on Amir by the way, just making a point

          • Jordan

            It does not work that way for Tim. It is all personal and hence his logic is flawed as your masterfully pointed out here.

          • Bargnani ALWAYS has a bad night defensively. If it was one night, I’d accept that. If Amir shot poorly all the time, I’d be bashing him, too. Amir usually has an extremely efficient night offensively, so on the one or two occasions he doesn’t you accept it.

            Oh, and way to minimize the criticism of Bargnani’s poor defense. No, it wasn’t “average” defense. It was POOR. That is below average. If Bargnani played average defense, I wouldn’t have mentioned it. Average defense is a step up.

            And Bargnani kept the Raptors in the game OFFENSIVELY. But did you watch the other end? He gave away just as many points as he got.

            Just for the record, I think scoring is great, but if you can’t hold your end on defense, then you’re a problem.

            • Cleves25

              Bargnani does his JOB. his job on this team is to score, scoer and score, Amir is there for the rebounds and D, (i understand that Bargs isnt a great defender and being the offensive weapon doesnt justify his bad D effort) Bargs could reobund if he wanted to / if it was required, but when you have ed davis and amir johnson around, the rebounds a left for them , (youll notice that often Bargnani is ther for the rebound, but either ed or amir pick the rebound from him (yes, more hustle i guess) but often in times where hustle isnt required. Bargnanis defense within the perimeter isnt that impressive i admit, often terrible, but he has had some decent defensive games this year, aswell as this past week. Again, defense doesnt always win you games (it is also very boring to watch haha) and especially in this case, where the raptors were behind from mid-1st quarter, defense is best played when ahead (too bad the raptors also arent great ‘lead holders’ aha)

              bottom line is – Bargs had a great night offensivly but did little else, apart from making team confidence-boosting buckets, making the rest of the team feel less pressured by a top team.

              • Again, I’ve no problem with Bargnani’s offensive game last night. It was great. But if you think that his job isn’t to rebound or defend, that we have VASTLY different basketball philosophies. He’s a big man. Two of his most important jobs are to defend and rebound. That’s key to playing winning basketball.

                And if Bargnani’s job isn’t to rebound, explain why both Davis and Amir both grabbed double digit boards and the Raptors were able to grab 8 fewer rebounds than the Heat?

                • Jonathan

                  Summed up perfectly to a T.
                  If you can’t rebound and play D at the NBA level as a big man you’re no good in the NBA, plain and simple

              • Jonathan

                Yea that’s one of the dumbest comments I’ve ever read on this board… “Bargnani does his JOB. his job on this team is to score, scoer and score”

                Do you not understand what the role of a 7 foot big man is?
                Give your head a shake man, that or you have 0 basic basketball knowledge…

          • EdDames

            “If he hadn’t rebounded, someone else would have”

            HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, oh son, I am disappoint.

            • Toshmon2

              I am also dissapoint.

        • Jordan

          Look at your Haters. The Guy just out shined Lebron, Wade and Bosh on the offensive end and scored 38 points and you are all looking for ways to Bash him !!!

          He had 4 rebounds, lets say he grabbed 3 more, would that make a difference in the outcome ??!!!

          The guys makes everyone better around him. All that free Lay ups that Amir gets down low is because of all the attention that defence has to give AB. Only if your productive Amir could score those easy lay ups and would not go for 2-9 , then we might have actually won this game !!!

          You guys are bunch of haters man and AB deserve better fans than you.

          • No, 3 more rebounds might not have made a difference if he continued to play such bad defense.

            And yes, I am a hater. But not of Bargnani. I’m a hater of one-dimensional basketball. And it disgusts me that people who call themselves basketball fans can completely disregard such an important aspect of WINNING basketball.

            The Raptors deserve better fans than that.

            • cesco

              The one sure thing about WINNING basketball is to outscore the opposition . Other than Andrea and DD the other 7 players that were in the game scored a total of 33 points . Between those 7 players , 4 extra buckets (8 points) will have us won the game and all the haters will have kept their mouth shut for at least one day (except you Tim who would keep talking about Andrea defense and how it could have cost us the game ) .

              • “The one sure thing about WINNING basketball is to outscore the opposition”

                Tell that to every single Championship team out there that were also great defensive teams. Also, try and explain that to Phoenix, Sacramento, Golden State and all those other teams out there that simply tried to outscore their opponent but never once made it to the NBA FInals. Sorry, but I’ve got history (and most great coaches opinions) on my side.

              • Jonathan

                Yea, this argument is completely flawwed man.. Just look @ the best teams.. its so obvious what’s important. Finding people to score is the easy part man

            • Anthony Feher

              Did you watch the game? Yes his help defense is lousy….. We get it, but he was not out muscled or in posted up losing rebounding battles…. He was where his defensive assignment was and kept his counterparts from getting rebounds too…. As for being outrebounded by 8, that may have to do with missing 14 more shots (offensive boards were even), Miami being at the free throw line all game and again Bargnani is a perimeter player. I give…. A good defensive player yesterday, with marginal offense and the score is 95-62…..

              • Yes, I watched the game, thanks for your concern. And the problem with Bargnani is not that he allows his man to grab rebounds (which he often does) but that him NOT grabbing rebounds often allows opposing players to grab them when he could have.

                As for what the score could have been, neither I, nor you, can guess what the final would have been. ANyone who knows basketball knows there are simply too many variations to do that. If Bargnani doesn’t go off, maybe DeRozan does. Or someone else. You simply never know. Besides, I think you’re vastly underestimating how much Bargnani gives up on the other end. Over the 39 minutes he played last night, I’m guessing he gave up more than the 8 points extra you claim he did.

                That’s what his backers always seem to forget. Yes, he gets you points, but if he scores 25 points and plays his regular horrible defense, that’s the same as a good defensive player scoring in the low teens. The difference, of course, is that ANYONE can pick up the scoring slack. No one can pick up someone else’s defensive slack.

                • Anthony Feher

                  Who will pick up the scoring slack? Love that comment….. Don’t think that Bargnani draws defenders, leaving others open? There are no other bad defenders in the league. Yesterday, who did Bargnani cover and what did they score? It was his fault Wade, Bosh & Lebron scored? It was his fault too every point scored while he was on the bench too…. And by the way most of his 38 were shots he created and not gimme’s…..

                • Nilanka15

                  Do you actually think that players who average 20 pts (on 20 shots) are rare? Pass me whatever you’re smoking.

                • When there is a void, you never know who picks up the slack. That’s basketball. Maybe no one does. Who knows. But you don’t score points in a vacuum. Without Bargnani, maybe the team gets more fastbreak points due to a few more stops. Maybe DeRozan goes off for 38.

                  And there are lots of other bad defenders in the league. The vast majority of them play for bad teams. If you’re happy with the Raptors being one of them, then that’s fine. I’m not.

            • Joe

              Agree about how far one dimensional basketball can carry a team. Just look at the team record for the past 5 years. Nuff said.

              And, I am not talking about just one player only. It is about Raptors “style of play” under B. Colangelo (read: defense optional).

            • The Don

              This was a much better defensive game for AB (by his standards) then many of you are giving him credit for…. Watch the game again. I have noticed an improvement (marginal) in his pick n’ roll defense. He seems to be more intuitive about when to hedge and even forced Wade to turn over the ball on one occasion. He is still extremely confused when it comes to help defense. However, part of the blame lies with the perimeter defense. It is unreasonable to expect AB to stop Wade or LBJ when they are running at him full speed. His only option is to foul which would also be detrimental to the team. Moreover, he seems to stick with his man for far too long (because of the lack of support behind him) before providing (late) help.

              IMO the deficiencies of the raptors defense is systemic. It needs to be simplified. Under no circumstances should our bigs be defending up around the 3 point line. I am not certain that Bargnani could successfully defend the paint, however, he needs to be put in that role to see if he could ever develop into an NBA level center.

          • RapsM

            HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Maybe he should leave when he becomes a free agent.

      • John, Bargnani had an excellent game and was the reason it was close.
        Effectiveness (in my mind) is also about consistency. Effort, focus, shot selection, etc.

      • Nilanka15

        Wow, you’ve been hiding for the last 2 months of Bargnani’s sleepwalking, and you all-of-a-sudden come out with your chest puffed out, hanging on a good shooting night in which he contributed NOTHING in every other facet of the game? Fuck off.

        • Anthony Feher

          Yep….. He did absolutely nothing, never does and had an awful 10-12 game stretch where he could not hit the broad side of a barn….. We get it, the raptors would be a top 4 team with a rugged defender in his place….. Amazing the hate for him by some on this site…. Maybe Adam Morrison is available and we can just cut Bargnani over the all-star break.

          • Nilanka15

            Buddy, re-read my post. I said he did nothing in every OTHER facet of the game. Meaning he scored, but did nothing else.

            Is it just me, or are the fanboys not even doing their homework anymore? But I guess that’s typical. Lazy fans being led by a lazy player.

            • Anthony Feher

              No…. Just you, swirsky and tim_w…..

    • AwesomeGuest

      I think that Barg just likes to stat pad his teammates rebounding. I mean really, if Barg actually put forth some effort on the board, Evans wouldn’t have been avg’ing 12 reb’s a game, and Davis wouldn’t be grabbing so many rebounds either.

  • Copywryter

    Ruuuuu Paul. Ruuuuu Paul.

    Nothing against CB4. No hard feelings. But I laughed at that bronx cheer late in the fourth.

  • aintno4s

    Calderon’s got to recognize when he’s having a bad shooting night and give it up even when he’s open. His misses killed us at the end and to me, that overshadowed the job he did running the offence.

    • If Calderon had taken any bad shots, I’d agree with you. But he’s a good shooter and he was taking open shots. He HAS TO take those shots. It’s just bad luck they didn’t go in. Oh, and he did dish out 14 assists, so it’s not as if he didn’t pass the ball, too.

      • knickz

        some clown on he post game show on the fan said jose needs to pass more instead of shooting lmfao

      • Statement

        I gotta agree with you Tim,

        Jose has historically been a good shooter and his shots were open shots coming off screens and what not.

        He was the most open offensive player in the situations where he did shoot. He was just heaving bricks all night.

        I believe somebody in this thread indicated that Bargs should have taken all the shots in the 4th quarter. Not trying to be sarcastic or anything, but has it ever been the case that 1 player takes all the shots in a quarter in the history of all the games played in the NBA? I wouldn’t think so.

        IMHO Jose, Amir and Ed have been the best players this year.

      • Smushmush

        Unfortunately, Jose has been in an offensive rut since the past one month and as a veteran, he should recognise that especially down the stretch when we needed the points and Bargs was in god mode(I’m not a supporter of Bargs however, I think Bargs is the poster child for what is wrong in basketball imo).

        Also notice in the clutch on this team, I see a lot of one-on-one by ball hogs like Barbosa, Weems, Bayless and of recent Jose(there is a reason why teams are leaving you open Jose – you can’t hit the broad side of a barn right now and I thought you should recognise that and do something else for your team to win (defend, rebound, pass the ball)) and refusing to feed the hot hand – that is a great indictment on the coaching imo.

  • Webcrawler89

    I disagree about Jose today,

    He got some nice simple assists, but made some crucial momentum changing turnovers and missed some important shots. In fact, today was the first day I felt like, we actually could have won this game had it not been for our deficiencies offensively at PG positions and defensively with Bargs in particular.

    • Borntobewild

      Didnt he have only 1 turnover? Agree about the shots though, i wish he would have just stopped shooting so i wouldnt have had to whip my shoe at the tv…

      • Webcrawler89

        he had 2 actually I think, 1 of them didn’t really count officially, but there were some sloppy passes, particularly that one that got Dwade that massive dunk. it was momentum changing. really killed the buzz in the building.

  • JR

    Bargnani should’ve taken every single shot in the 4th. Everything was falling for him, yet Bayless/Calderon/Barbosa continued to jack up their own shots early in the clock. You gotta feed the guy with the hot hand… He could’ve had 50 the way he was shooting the ball.

  • RenaldoSugarbush

    Bargs played with some passion tonight. I think he looks at the way Demar is playing and wants to step up his game.
    Good effort.

  • Anon

    i would put the refs and david stern under the bus. the raps played their hearts out, and they got robbed of what should have been a win for us. it seems that they had the outcome fixed, with them expecting that the raps would self-destruct like cleveland.

    bargs was on fire! at least he made up for his poor rebounding performace. demar and the other boys got no foul calls for being aggressive driving inside, while lebrick, d-fraud, rupaul got to the line a lot for questionable fouls. why, coz lebron has been whining and crying the entire game? the miami cheat got to the foul line almost 40 times while the raps only got there half of it.

    it’s just very unfortunate that the raps never get the respect they deserve as a part of this league, even on their home floor. if this continues, i doubt that a 2nd coming of a team in VanCity would succeed. tragic!

    • AwesomeGuest

      Vancouver Hornets! :]

      • Joe

        Vancouver Beavers.

  • 4pt_play

    The Raptors this year despite their record are more entertaining than last year. Running the offence through Bosh last year was honestly really boring to watch.

  • nesnes

    Alrite guys, would you rather have monster bargs (pts and no rbs) or monster bogut (rbs and no pts) from their games today?

    • Webcrawler89

      that’s a pointless-argument starting comment. Both players need to be able to do both to a certain level on their respective teams. Milwaukee could use every ounce of offense they can get, while Toronto can use whatever defensiveness they can get. By no means do they have to average a double-double double, even 15+ points for Bogut and 7+ Rebounds for bargs would make me happy.

      • nesnes

        lol yeah that would make me happy too, it was more of a fun ‘pick your poison’ kind of question. Just reflecting on the ridiculousness of their stats today. As long as bargs is playing D, I don’t think he would be hurting the team since our pfs are very good at getting the boards.

    • Anon

      actually we already have both. we got reggie evans. reggie was all about the rebounds. too bad he went down early this season. at least we saw improvement from other other bigs in amir and ed. dorsey also wasnt bad.

  • good game…no complaints…raps nation till the death!

  • Raptordan

    Was at the game. What a shit crowd. Couldn’t get many chants/taunts started. Too many corporate suits just there to be there and not enough die hard fans. This place should have been rocking like a 7th game in the playoffs but it wasn’t. Really tame and really lame. Nice job by Bargs, Ed, DD and Amir. Besides the Refs, I feel that Bayless cost us the game on several key possessions.

  • MookieB

    This game is yet another that emphasizes this team’s struggle. We have no small forward and we do not have a good enough point guard. I have not warmed up to Bayless, but I think he could replace Barbosa off the bench.

    This off-season, get a SF that can defend and rebound and hit open threes (Thad Young). Get a star PG from the draft (Kyrie Irving or Jimmer Fredette).

  • hateslosing

    I only saw the last quarter but two things stood out. One is that when Bargs is on offensively, he is scary. If he played like this every night, yo could almost live with the bad D and rebounding. Two is that you can’t win a game when the refs don’t want you to. How many times was there contact on our drives in he last 5 minutes that we got a call. Conversely, how many time did James get a call. He was literally on the line for almost every possession in crunch time, and often for suspect fouls. That block by Amir that even Jack Said was clean is one example of a play that could given us momentum and points but the refs took it away. Demar and Ed continue to shine for us, Jay should get them to play more two man together, see if they can get some chemistry for the future.

  • James

    I remember one of the RR staff and Tim calling Bayless ALL-STAR here ?? How does that look like now ?? I am very disapointed at Bayless when he was OUT-PLAYED by Carlos Arroyo !!!

    • Nilanka15

      He may never be an all-star, but he’s playing with a Forrest Gump brace on each knee. It’s far too early to write him off. Like Weems, his biggest problem is a lack of discipline. Triano, I’m looking in your direction…

  • Daniel

    The first thing that dissapears from a banged-up player is his shot. Bargnani, Calderon, Barbosa, Weems have shot below their averages for relatively long stretches. It is a combination of lack of conditioning and lack of practice. It usually comes back after a few practices in the gym and one good shooting night. The question is if they contribute in other areas or if they should just shut it down. Bargnani is our only pure scoring option, Calderon the only playmaker so they have to play through it. The other two are definitely expendable.
    For the first time since we’ve drafted him I like what I’ve seen in DeRozan in the last 5 games. His defense is still subpar and his skills are still mediocre however I’ve noticed some small things that show real understanding of the game. He starts to understand the concepts of space and positioning in both offence and defence. He’s developing a really good chemistry with Calderon and Bargnani to the point of completely dominating the offensive space among the 3 of them. He’s also starting to make drop passes, cross-court passes from the double team and starts to know when to shoot and when to pass. I hope it is not just a fluke and that he will continue to develop his skills in the gym.
    Man, it felt good to boo Bosh and the whole Heat team.

  • Borntobewild

    Can i just say, THANK GOD FOR ROLL CALL

    • knickz

      i have missed it myself lol

  • Rapture

    i wanna see demar and ED be the next shaq and kobe

    • EuroPussy

      I wanna wake up and find Scarlet Johansson in my bed.
      I think, we both have to wait for a very very long time.

      • knickz

        not really…it could happen next season if we trade andrea get a scoring 2 or 3

        • EuroPussy

          Please sorry but i can’t stop laughing…

  • AwesomeGuest

    Most frustrating part of the game was at the end when we were starting to get some momentum, but then Miami decides to pull a couple of Rondo moments on us and left Calderon wide open for bricks.

    Barg’s was on fire in the 4th and I genuinely think he could’ve brought us a win if Calderon didn’t have to absolute kill our momentum like that. Not to mention that stupid foul call on Amir blocking LBJ.

  • TheR3dMenace

    Jerryd Bayless drives me crazy, and not in a good way.

  • CJ

    This game was lost because of Stern’s referees. All of a sudden in the 4th quarter, LeBron was treated like porcelain, where he would be guaranteed a call with any drive to the basket, regardless if we fouled him or not. But that’s fine, the NBA’s Miami Heat darlings MUST not lose to that other team north of the border. Ridiculous….happened in the last Miami game too.

    • There were a few bad calls, but the Raptors lost because they couldn’t stop the Heat and most of the team couldn’t hit a shot. Blaming the refs is looking for a scapegoat.

      • CJ

        Duh? Isn’t that why all teams lose games, because they can’t make shots and get get stops….sometimes teams like this one have a little extra help. You said there were a “Few bad calls” (enough to cost the game and kill momentum) thanks for proving my point..

        • “Duh?”? Can we keep the level of discussion at one above my 9 year old?

          And my point is that EVERY team gets bad calls. Ask Miami fans if they think they got some bad calls last night and I’ll bet you they will point out a few. Good teams play above that. Unfortunately, the Raptors are not a good team. And lost because of it.

          • raptordan

            Dude, the refs were atrocious in the 4th quarter. 17 fouls for the Heat and 2 for the raps. We were pretty aggressive and never got the calls, while merely breathing in the direction of Lebron/Wade/Bosh got called. It was pretty lopsided.

            Of course with better play, the Raps could have won, but the refs lopsided foul calling had a major effect on the game and I believe cost us the game.

            • I only remember one or two drives from DeRozan where he could have gotten a call, and didn’t, and maybe someone inside (Davis or Amir?) who might have gotten fouled. On the other end, the obviously F@@ked up Amir’s block of LeBron, but I wouldn’t say the reffing was atrocious. I’ve seen a couple of games this year where I think the reffing was a huge factor, but I wouldn’t have said this game was.

  • EuroPussy

    Barbosa 1 – 7
    Calderon 2 – 9
    Johnsson 2 – 10
    I think this defeat was not a problem of defense but of offense efficiency.
    DD is getting better, but i think he is overrated (only my personal opinion of course).
    Big game for Bargs, greets to all the haters.

    • Theswirsky

      no ofcourse the other team scoring 50% had nothing to do with it. It can’t because Bargnani got his points tonight so defense is irrelevant.

    • knickz

      lmao…demar is better than bargs bro

      • EuroPussy

        Demar is better than bargs? LOOOOOOOOOOL
        Joke of the year.

        • Nilanka15

          They’re both mediocre players. The difference is that Bargnani has been mediocre for 5 years, and is actually getting worse on defense, while DeRozan’s jumper, defense, handles, shot-selection, passing ability, and aggresiveness are all improving (oh ya, and he’s only 21).

        • Jonathan

          Demar definitely has much more potential than bargs.

          • looooool

            • Jonathan

              look at the stats progression from year 1 to year 2.
              Compare bargs year 1 to year 2
              to demars year 1 to year 2.

              Bargs ability/skill = decreasing
              demar ability/skill = increasing

              In fact, it took until year 4 for bargs to actually see a real jump in development that was comparable to the real jump in development we’ve seen in Demar after only 1 year.

              Hence why I stated demar has more potential and I PERSONALLY think he will be a better and more athletic player than bargs.

  • EuroPussy

    Oh i forgot one thing: the refrees needs again this year a appointment with a oculist (or mayby with an attorney).

  • I think that defensively we didn’t want to double too much and we’re playing Wade leBron and Bosh. That’s not easy to do. Those guys score on every team. Yes, the idea is to rotate and take it away, but that doesn’t always work. Those guys are fast enough that when the help defender goes back to his check to avoid teh three second call they can drive and get to the rim in a Flash. That’s why shaq called him Flash. Shaq is really good with the nicknaming. He’s got that down. I thought Andrea worked hard, was really showing on the PnR defense early, and he did help and stay with his man pretty well all game. As bad of a ball tracker he is on rebounds, he boxes out very consistently to help make up for it. Now there’s good and bad aspects to this but it’s apparent and it’s up to us to make it work best for us or trade him, but this dude is rises to the occasion and needs the occasion to rise. If we had the talent to compete on the roster and we had big important games, he’d be there to get us over the hump. He’s a psycho scorer, he’s the Lamborghini in the garage, it’s just that right now we’re in a period of winter roads and grading him on how well he plows through the snow banks. If a good team was able to steal him from us he could win playoff series. As Leo said, he might miss shots, but you can’t shut him down.

    Now, he repped us tonight. He put it on the line and now everyone in the lockerroom can hold their head up high. His team mates know it. They aren’t lying or trying to win favour of BC when they call him the franchise guy. When you ask ED if he see’s himself in that role, he know’s it’s not a matter of just give him Andrea’s shots because he deserves then for his rebound work. He knows he’ll contribute in his way and other in their way. And I’m sure he knows playing with Andrea means you can average double figure rebounds and make more money in your career.

    The Heat out rebounded us by 8, but that was more a function of us missing more shots. Plus we really had to be conscious of getting back and not crashing offensive glass. Just too costly versus the Heat. The biggest victim of Andrea’s poor rebounding #’s are his reputation, and all star chances. If Andrea should get 8 boards and he get’s five, it’s likely all but .5 of those go to his team mates, not the other team. So what’s the real impact?

  • Nilanka15

    As satisfying it would’ve been to beat Bosh in his return to the TeeDot, the long-term plan is still in effect. That is, compete in (almost) every game, and continue to pile up losses to improve draft position. The kids get some much needed experience in different game situations, and we still position ourselves to improve our roster this summer. A win last night wouldn’t have done much, and would’ve been forgotten after the all-star game.

  • Buschfire

    I’m sorry what?!? did i just here correctly?? did you just say

    “Bargnani: he earned himself a month in the next firemans calendar tonight. He was faced with the best Raptor of all time most of the night and came out more than holding his own.”

    Bosh?? the best Raptor of all time?!?!? fine he may be tops on all the lists but thats mainly coz he was here the longest… jeeze Vince Carter will be the best Raptor of all time… as much as some people may hate to hear that he was….plain and simple he put this team and this city on the map.

    • Nilanka15

      But the question is, did Vince do that with his hard work, or from simply being able to jump high?

      • Buschfire

        good point, I agree Vince had a lot … a lot a lot of natural talent… but he had to work at it a bit…its not like he just showed up and was that good… fine i agree he checked out in the last few months in Toronto, but you can’t deny what he did for the city…if it wasn’t for him the Raptor’s would be the Tennessee Raptors not the Toronto Raptors. Bosh gave us 1 season over 500….and 2 first round playoff exits…. Vince got us to the second round game 7 and then lost it for us but still…at the time when it was good Vince was way more inspiring then Bosh ever was, to his team and fans….”the Silent Leader” fine Vince had a great supporting cast but those were the golden years for us…like get over it…its a long time ago can we stop booing old players no matter how they left?

      • Theswirsky

        Vince… while he tried… was unquestionably the best player this team ever saw.

        I would also put Damon, McGrady and Antonio Davis ahead of Bosh.

        We still overrate Bosh… he was good… but not that good.

        • Nilanka15

          I wasn’t disagreeing, just asking the question. I think Carter is the best Raptor as well, but I wonder if he would’ve got as much attention in the US if he wasn’t a leaper (and didn’t win the slam dunk contest). I’m thinking not.

          But I would put Bosh ahead of Damon, Tmac and AD (who only played 3 seasons each in Toronto). Bosh’s 7 years should count for something since he choose to stay at least once.

        • raptordan

          I would put Damon, McGrady and Antonio Davis ahead of Bosh only on the all asshole list.

        • 5 time All-Star, 1 All NBA 2nd Team, Conference Player of the Week 3 times, COnference Player of the Month once, Raptor All-Time leading scorer, rebounder and shotblocker. Highest rebounding average in a season, for a Raptor and second highest ppg average.

          I think you may be underrating him a little. I was never sold on him as a franchise player, but to say that he wasn’t one of the two best Raptor players of All-Time is a little unfair.

  • Raptoronto

    Carter winning the dunk contact and being a leaper is part of what made him so great (for that moment in time)…can’t take it away from him. Just like we can’t take away his sensitive side. Frankly I think it might be time for Raptor fans to shut the door on the VC hate (and I’ve been as spiteful as anyone). He did the most for this franchise and also did the most damage…but the damage has, for the most part, run it’s course and were rebuilding again. I’d actually like to see Vince get some love at the ACC before he retires.

    …and Bosh was a restrictred free agent. Once the Raps offered the max he no longer had a choice.

    • raptordan

      Vince was the best Raptor so far, but as long as he is playing he will always get booed in Toronto. Vince doesn’t have much more time left in the league though – 2 seasons tops. Maybe after he retires some love might come his way.

    • Nilanka15

      Bosh wasn’t a restricted free agent. He signed an extention before reaching free agent status. He chose to stay.

      • Raptoronto

        What were his options once the Raps offered a max extension?…he would have been a restricted free agent. Raps could then match any offer…what were his options/choices?

        • Bosh could have simply played the season out and become a unrestricted free agent. It’s not like he had to take the extension.

          • Raptoronto

            The Raptors made a qualifying offer on a rookie contract player. He would have been a restricted free agent.

            • Yes. That was my point. Bosh could have taken the qualifying offer (somewhere in the area of $5-6 million) and become a unrestricted free agent. Lots of player have done it.

              You seem to want to portray Bosh as not having a choice, which he did. I know the Bosh-hate is high, right now, but let’s not try and search for reasons to hate the guy more. Personally, I don’t care in the least about him anymore. It’s a lot more healthy that way.


    Arsenalist and Tim_W, what are your basketball philosophies? You portray people of great basketball knowledge, where did you play? What teams have you coached, what are your actual basketball creds?

    Don’t want to hear lifelong fan of the game, read a great book on stats etc.

    Opinions are great to have people but remember this is a blog, so don’t get all bent out of shape. There’s haters for everything.

    Would you let someone fill a cavity for you, if all they have ever done is write a blog on filling cavities? Think not!

    • Nilanka15

      Are you suggesting you need to be Jerry Sloan to write about basketball? Would you ask Doug Smith, Bruce Arthur, Michael Grange, Tim Chisolm, etc. for their level of basketball experience?

      Blogs are opinions, nothing more, nothing less. You wouldn’t let an unqualified dentist fill your cavity, but if someone wants to write a blog about filling cavities, they’re perfectly entitled to do so. Readers can visit the blog on a take-or-leave-it basis. No harm done.

    • Riorap,

      You want to know my basketball philosophies and credentials? Why, are you trying to hire me? Before you dispense advice, what are YOUR credentials for giving advice on such matters? It’s a two way street, here.

      Obviously I have enough of a background that I “portray” a person of “great basketball knowledge”. I think that’s probably good enough for having a discussion about basketball, which is pretty much what we do here. I’ve never claimed to be an expert, neither here nor on my blog. I do think I’m pretty damn knowledgable about basketball, though, and apparently a lot more knowledgable about how to debate than you.

      A word of advice. If you don’t like the argument someone has, and can’t actually give a good counter-argument, attacking the person, rather than the argument, is pretty classless. It looks desperate in politics, and it looks desperate here.