Well I hope the Brits enjoyed this tilt for David Stern’s sake, because it was most unpalatable triple-overtime game I’ve ever witnessed. I don’t think basketball will ever catch on here, it has in other parts of Europe but this nation is on another level of soccer madness. It’s crazier than hockey is over here. Anyway, it’s too bad they had to have two bad teams up here, only because having teams with actual aspirations would have created a lot of complaining about putting them at an unfair advantage by flying them out here during the season. But I guess Bryan Colangelo already knew that this team wouldnt be very good when he signed up for this gig probably sometimes this offseason, although he never admitted it publicly then.

So the game, yes, kind of painful to watch but at least it didn’t turn into a blowout and was competitive until the end. The Raptors started off well, with a lot of the offense on quick DeMar DeRozan jumpers. For some reason New Jersey still thinks he can’t hit the mid-range shot, when it in fact has quietly become the strength of his game. He’s showing a little bit of everything now, actually, which is not too common if you think about it. Alot of times what you see from a player, even at the age of 20 or so, is what you always get. Players do get better at that age, no doubt, but it’s because they fill out a little bit, some do improve their shot but it’s rare to see a guy add layers to his game like DeMar has.

You have to applaud that. Just this game, he showed some penetration and kick-out skills, he’s showed more consistency in keeping his dribble alive when driving into the paint. He showed poise in hitting a stepback jumper at the end of a shot-clock on Sundiata Gaines, ok a D-Leaguer, but nonetheless impressive. You know that’s the elite players’ domain, when the Kobes and Lebrons of this world just conjure up an excellent individual effort to save a possession.

That’s what DeMar DeRozan is starting to show us. I’m not sure he will ever be at that level because he lacks the combination of elite level size and athelticism, but he’ll be very good, if he isn’t already. Almost forgot, he hit a three! 3rd three of the year and from the corner where it’s almost like his patented mid-range shot. Look what adding a three has done for Derrick Rose, it’s imperative that a quality guard has it, but I think we all know that already.

The second quarter witnessed the Raptors giving up 42 points. The Raptors defense wasn’t bad, but the Nets worked the ball through Brook Lopez, which caused the Raptor defense to adjust and this team is just not good at rotating to the open spots for whatever reason. Especially with Andrea Bargnani involved, who needs any excuse to float out to the perimeter and stay there. Once he’s guarding that perimeter player, you can forgot about any help defense from your center. Real NBA defenses would have him coming back inside on penetration and a guard rotating over to his man. Nope. And if he is actually still guarding a big, and there’s penetration, he’s more interested in boxing out his man, and you’ll see Ed Davis and Amir Johnson trying to help instead. At least he rebounded well in regulation. That and the fact he played decent offensively minimized his daily defensive ineptitude.

This is how I see it. Other parts of his game are so bad, he puts the team at a huge disadvantage. His offense only serves to minimize the negative impact on his team. In rare cases, when he is super-efficient offensively does he perhaps cross over to the threshold of being a slight positive impact. I love it when people say that he’s a big reason why we have even won any games this year. I look at it the other way. He hasn’t hurt the team that badly with his defence and rebounding in those games because he scored well. In all the other games he has played he has usually helped this team lose with his horrific defense and rebounding. Is this an inept offensive team without Bargnani? I don’t think so. I think DeMar has shown he can create his own offense. I think Jose Calderon could be more aggressive and he uses Amir Johnson effectively to generate offense. Our offensive rating is 105.8, good for 20th in the league and a big reason why it isn’t even lower is because of Jose Calderon, not Bargnani.

The 3rd quarter was sloppy, with the Raptors making a concerted effort to take away the 3-ball after being shellacked in the second, which took the Nets out of their rhythm. Andrea Bargnani shouldered the load offensively, and Ed Davis played well, and continues to show he was one of the steals of the draft. He may be a little on the light side like Amir Johnson, but he just out jumps other guys. He’s starting nail that little jumper near the free throw line which is good to keep defenders honest.

The Raptors held the Nets to 7 points until the halfway mark of the 4th with and Ed Davis/Amir Johnson frontcourt, jumping out to 101-95 lead with 5:28 to go. The Nets resorted to pick and rolling Brook Lopez, which the Raptors mishandled badly by lame pressure on Deron Williams who easily found Lopez at the rim. Why does our pick-and-roll defense suck? Why aren’t guys getting pulled from the game for not being able to defend such a simple scenario more effectively. Fine, it can burn you once in a while, but possession after possession? Especially with Bargnani, who immediately think he needs to switch up on the perimeter player because the rim gives him negative vibes or something. Once he does that, Amir or Ed need to rotate over, because that’s what NBA bigs do, and Kris Humphries is left open and theres your secret to why he’s had 2 pretty good games, folks.

The best part of last night? Two times where the Raptors had the ball at the end to win the game. The first time, a ball out to Bargnani at the top of the key. He waits until there’s a couple of seconds left and takes a contested deep two. Wow. Same scenario at the end 3rd overtime. Again, Barganani holds it, everyone else is just standing, I’m sure the Nets are just as dumbfounded as us fans are. Same thing. Contested deep two. I will not comment on this, because it’s too easy. But I will refer you to a quote by a pretty smart guy by the name of Einstein:

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

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  • Red Baron

    I’m really starting to blame Triano for some of Bargs/Raps shortcomings (some, not all)….If there is one thing Bargnani has shown since being here is that he is coachable (i.e. you don’t get any “screw you Coach, I’ll do what I want” body language from him). Yes Bargs should have drove on that last play, and yes Triano mentioned he wanted him to after the game…..but did he SPECIFICALLY TELL ‘Drea to in the time-out huddle? Did he say “unless Hump backs right off you and gives you an uncontested jumper, you drive hard to the basket and try to score or get to the line”? I don’t think he did and you KNOW from experience that Bargs will lean towards the long jumper versus a drive in the lane if the decision is left to him. I watch other NBA games/telecasts, and the top coaches are right into their guys in crunch time and let them know exactly how he want things….You just need to know your personnel (i.e. if you have Kobe on your team you just get him the ball and let him make the decision as he’ll most likely always make the right one).

    • Love the raps

      I don’t agree with anything u said in the anaysis… great game, love seeing the young players develop – Andrea is awesome – nice to see 30 pts and 12 rebounds…. (he is growing in this facet of the game as well) Awesome game – fans in britain were great….

      Love watching the raptors grow finally….

      • Balls of Steel

        Sorry dude, I think we were watching different games.

      • KJ-B

        I TOTALLY AGREE–LOVED the game… I have to give my respect to “Andre…#7” didn’t like the j’s at the end but he played “Reboundball” pretty well tonight!

        “…DeMar DeRozan lacks size and athleticism”… Do these RR columnists actually go to games??? He dunks with the ease of 7-footer–you must have never seen him “close up” just fooling around in practice!?

        • A-Dub

          I think you took this out of context.

          Just prior to that blurb, within the same sentence mind you I say: “I’m not sure he will ever be at that level because…”

          What level you say? Kobe and Lebron’s. I think that’s a fair statement. Compared to me or Arse or any average Joe, yes he has godly size and athleticism. That’s not what I meant.

          • KJ-B


    • Balls of Steel

      For a 5th year player (and supposedly # 1 option on offense), he should “get it” by now. All coaches do is remind and call a play that the team MUST execute. Waiting for Humphries to set his feet and guard him tight was a recipe for disaster. It didn’t work once, why try again?

      • DGIU23

        keep blaming everything on bargs, 35/12 what more do u want?

        • Balls of Steel

          Bargs dropped 41 in New York and we lost. What is your point? Why don’t we continue to marvel at his scoring ad nauseam until we turn blue? Two plays were drawn for him and he executed it identically with predictable results. He’s the # 1 option yet he failed, so I couldn’t care less about his numbers. Let’s say he had a bad offensive game but slowed down his man (be it Lopez or Humphries)? If he had that effort and we still lost the game, would I be as upset or critical? I think not.

          • Love the raps

            Andrea made Brook foul out…. He had a fantastic game…. Defensively and offensively….he took many charges – he hussled on rebounds…. Andrea has had a career year this year, he’s improved in every stat- and he is still young – he can for sure still grow – as we will see all the new raps grow together.

            If they one last night you would have been happy – I would been devastated…. Getting a couple more wins is not the priority – developing the players, and protecting the draft pick is… If a couple wins, Makes u happy watch another team…. Stop bringing your unmet expectations to the site.

            I love watching this years raps and seeing them grow …… When we lost Bosh everybody had to understand we took a major step back….. Getting a good draft pick will be the step forward – and this team has a nice young core..

            • Balls of Steel

              My expectations for this team is realistic. So are my expectations for Bargs as an individual 5th year player and a center in the NBA. Is it too much to ask to defend with some semblance of interest and hustle? I don’t expect him to score 30 points a game. But as a 5th year player and supposedly the # 1 option in this team, I think it’s high time that he show some interest on the other side of the floor and not be pulled out during critical defensive stretches of the game. Is that too much to ask?

              • Love the raps

                Its obvious that bargs has defensive challenges….he is offensively gifted – but is weaker on defensive end – these can and will improve. To me it’s an obvious fact like the raptors are having a dive of a season. That’s why the expectation should be to see improvement from game to game in the young core….bargs is a fifth year player but it’s his first year in this new role as being the man. Personally – I didn’t think he was going to do as well as he’s done this year…to me it’s always a pleasant surprise when someone goes from 17 pts a game to 22 average…..especially when the Defence centers on him….
                You are highlighting a benign point…. ur complaints regarding Andrea are diminishing one of the few bright spots of this team….


                • Balls of Steel

                  I believe I explained why on my comments above. Just read it.

                • Rgersh

                  Pretend ur in a relationship and u have a fantastic girlfriend, and she an aspect of her personality ur not crazy about – do u focus on her faults or her strengths?

                  That was my point… Worse yet, do u diminish her positive qualities, so that u can harp on her negative qualities?

                  In short – are u single and alone?

                • Balls of Steel

                  Happily married with a gorgeous wife and a beautiful 6 year-old daughter. You? You realize that you just diminish whatever merit your argument have by questioning my status right? Listen, it’s a free country (the last time I checked). That means I can be critical of any player in this team as far as
                  this forum is concerned. I wasn’t disrespectful of its posters and readers. Why are you so bent out of shape about my comments? You want me to agree with you? Dissing me without knowing me proves that most “fans” such as yourself will get personal with others if they have no intelligent rebuttals to return to people they disagree with. Not to worry, I won’t get personal with you by insulting your level of intelligence. Your comment says it all.

                  PS> The girlfriend analogy is gold. Do you mind if I use that the next time I disagree with someone?

                • love the Raps

                  You’re right, I took it to far…. Single and Alone had a bit of spite in it…. At any point you can use any of my work – I am honoured you would want to use it….

                  You are allowed to say what you want, and have an opinion –

                  On a personal note, I’m just trying to enjoy the rest of this season and talk about the positives of this team and what we have to look forward too…. I find coming to this blog, not very many people use it as a forum to be positive and hopeful – quite the opposite, it seems its a venting ground….. Kind of getting old and tired of seeing the same cliches, fire triano, andrea is the worst, yada,yada…. – hoping to hear something else…

                  P.S. alot of people use this term basketball knowledge – there is minimal science in accurately predicting outcomes of games… It’s all mainly assumptions and guesses – and you can be a basketball expert and still get it very wrong on a ‘game to game basis’ ………
                  P.S.S – Nice to hear you have a gorgeous wife and beautiful daughter (I also have a 1 and half year old daughter)…. Nothing more important than those two!!!

                • If I was single, and met a girl that was gorgeous, but had an incredibly grating personality and a bad case of herpes, I’m guessing she wouldn’t end up ever becoming my girlfriend. That’s how I see Bargnani. It’s not that Bargnani has one aspect I’m not crazy about. It’s that he only has one aspect that I like. Rebounding and defense are two incredibly important skills for ANY big man to have. It’s like a girl who’s good looking, but annoys the hell out of you and you’re afraid to have sex with because she’ll give you herpes. Quite frankly, I don’t see her as a long term prospect.

                • Ihatehaters

                  Bargnani is annoying AND has herpes.


                • zulu

                  I think its more like your dating the prom queen. you’re spending crazy money, bring her to the finest restaurants wine and dine like a princess. she is knock dead beautiful always lookin sexy every dude saqys they want to be with her or a girl like her. but what they dont realize is when it comes time for her to produce truly perform and execute the way she looks like she should. she gots a headache, cramps, or shes just not ready yet. she needs a little more time……
                  CUT THAT CHICK OFF find a little Chubby one from the band or drama club. supersize her big mac combo. and watch her give 120% trying to satisfy your every need save your 10mil a year

            • Theswirsky

              “Andrea has had a career year this year, he’s improved in every stat”

              completely inaccurate.

              Rebounds down
              Blocks down
              fg% down
              turnovers up

              • yertu damkule

                wow. what a hater. his ppg are up. that IS ‘every’ stat. duh.

                • cesco

                  His FT stats have gone up (he is #1 in FT % for centers) . His assists have gone up (# 9 vs # 14 last year) . His steals have gone up and PF have gone down (he had to bring down his PF to compensate for Amir deficiency in that respect) . His shooting % has gone down slightly due to the fact he is now the #1 option on offense and gets defended much more tightly. His overall efficiency has gone up from 16.5 to 17.3 (NBA.com) . Not bad eh .

                • Theswirsky

                  steals have gone up from 0.3 to 0.6… going from non-existent to nearly non-existent is hardly something to brag about (Amir more than doubles him on a per minute basis… is at 0.8 on 26 minutes… infact Amir’s entire stat line outside of points are higher than Bargnani on an average of 10 less minutes a game)

                  assists have gone up from 1.2 to 1.8…. again see above

                  not good eh.

                  yeah points!

                  (Reminder… this was in relation to “he has improved in EVERY STAT”)

                • tom

                  I don’t think the fouls per game going down has anything to do with Amir; a lot more due to indifference and unwillingness to muck it up. I’d gladly take Bargs committing 3.5 fouls per game, if that meant 1 hard foul per game (which is 1 more per game than he’s currently committing).

          • RapthoseLeafs

            Last year, Bosh had two 40 plus games – both losses. Lower that bar to 30 points & greater …. 5 wins – 10 losses. As CB went, the Raptors did not – so to speak.

            If one compares Chris & Andrea, when scoring 20 or more points (which is somewhat unfair, as CB was the 1st option), the totals are:

            Bosh ….. 27 wins – 26 losses (.509 win %)
            Bargs …. 17 wins – 10 losses (.630 win % )

            As for efg% last year (overall)
            Bosh: .521
            Bargs: .523

            What’s the point?
            Last year Bosh was the “franchise player”, and MAX player, and the guy who led us to the Promise Land – which invariably turned out to be Ed Davis. So I have to thank him for that.

            Bargs, for all the hate against him, earned 1/2 what Bosh did last year. And despite the “franchise” tag that some put on him, he has been the #1 option because no one else has demonstrated offensive abilities on a consistent basis (usage BS aside) – Demar being the exception as this season progressed.

            What AB offers, is the skill to score from any location on the court. His efg% sits at .484 (Demar is .473). Franchise player he is not. Talented scorer he is. When Raps can figure out how to mold his offense, with a corresponding defensive player (ie. a traditional Centre), this team could have the best of both worlds. It’s only too bad that some fans are so focused on his weaknesses, that they can’t allow for his strengths to be a part of any success. Missing a buzzer beater just typifies tunnel vision – which we have enough of in Bayless. Get over that shot.

            • Balls of Steel

              I’m not interested in Barg’s numbers. I got over the shot. What I cannot get over are the identical ways in which he blew the shot. I got over that too.

              Read my statement:

              Let’s say he had a bad offensive game but slowed down his man (be it Lopez or Humphries)? If he had that effort and we still lost the game, would I be as upset or critical? I think not.

              I don’t care if Bargs scored 30 points a night. All I care about is that he
              takes care of his man once in a while. The 2 shots missed has been included in my argument because as an offensive juggernaut of this team, those missed shots were disappointing not because of the miss but rather how he missed. There was no effort in his attempt to score on both occasions – a task that apparently he’s very good at. Please get over my criticism of his play. I can make this criticism just as much as you can support him. You support him and like his game. I don’t. Let’s agree to disagree. In the end, his offensive skills have yielded us 17 wins (since he’s surrounded by scrubs apparently).

              PS> As the number one guy, his weakness if far too much to ignore. More importantly, his weaknesses is adversely affecting this team. His offense pales in comparison to what he gives up on the defensive side of the court. This record is officially broken.

  • barenakedman

    I guess if Bargs knocks down one of those end of overtime shots he is the hero who won the game for us. Fact is I can’t recall the last time I saw him coming up big with the game on the line. I guess the law of averages says that if the play keeps getting drawn up for him to have the ball in crunch time eventually he’ll come through.

    • Balls of Steel

      You mean, throw enough noodles on the wall and one of them is likely to stick? Sure. Fortunately, around this time next year, Demar will be taking these shots and he will ultimately become the leader of this franchise. AB will continue to start and be cushy with his approach, but closing out games will be on Demar’s, Ed’s or Amir’s shoulders. It will happen. It will.

      • dgiu23

        dd is a good player but far from being the n1 option on offense especially looking at his 3pts stats http://www.nba.com/playerfile/demar_derozan/index.html, i really hope bargs gets traded so maybe u ll realise that he is not the crappy player you portray him to be.

        • Balls of Steel

          Right, he gets traded and there’s a good chance that his next coach will not tolerate his defensive effort. Right, he gets traded and becomes the number one option off the bench.

          Is he 6th man material? Definitely. I’m not a Bargs hater. I just recognize his strengths and weaknesses (all NBA players have that). Every man he had to defend are having career games against him (be it Mohammed, Blair, Humphries, Lopez, the list goes on).

        • pran

          this is why i dislike you and the majority of your crew, one player is more important than the whole franchise

        • alvin

          i hope we draft kanter to show you how a real centre is supposed to play

      • C.d.G.

        Balls of Steel,
        are you never tired to look like a dumb, again and again?
        Can you explain – in any way – WHY you are so excited to have Demar playing “these shots” instead of Bargs? Does it really change anything for you?
        Who the f… are you, Demar’s agent? Will you get money in that case?
        Are you going to get a new house if “closing out games will be on Demar’s, Ed’s or Amir’s shoulders”?
        Or maybe your great bias will be – then – satisfied?
        Don’t answer no reason. You just don’t have.

        • Balls of Steel

          First off, I don’t know why you’re so bent out of shape about my comments. I don’t know why you get personal. You don’t know me and I don’t know you. Having said that, despite you’re incredibly inflammatory and inappropriate remarks, I will not reciprocate in your style. I’m not affiliated with DeMar or any other player on the roster. The last time I checked, there are 5 players on the court at any given time. Both plays were given to Bargs and he blew it both. There was no difference in the way he executed the first shot from the second. It didn’t work once, why try again? Why not pass to a man, or in the very least move back to create space. Are you saying that he couldn’t dribble around Kris Humphries? Are you offended by the possibility that the other 4 players can take the shot? Are you offended that Demar’s quickness to the basket would yield a better chance of him either scoring on a higher percentage or possibly getting contact to go to the line? Why is Andrea Bargnani everything to you? Don’t condemn me from my assessment. I don’t condemn you.

          Accusing me of bias is ironic on your part. While I’m considering his teammates (as a possibility) to take a shot, you’re only considering one guy – a player which New Jersey figured would get the final touch on both plays. Why bother drawing a play then? We should just tell them who’s going to get the ball. How is that for an answer?

    • Why

      Seems like virtually every post on the website devolves to a discussion of the pros and cons of Bargnani. That the last plays were isos for AB and DD shows, to me, the dire need for a dynamic point guard.

  • MJ Fan

    Can’t agree more with Red Baron. Bargs on the same position on OT2–not work; and Jay set the same thing for Bargs on OT3. Both of them, Bargs’ not face the board when he received the ball, it lead him more difficult to turn and shot. why we keep try this shiiittttttt forever?

  • why

    Two little things that might have put the game away down the stretch – Davis missing two free throws and Bayless trying to be the hero with a minute left – instead of passing the ball to an open Bargnani on a pick and roll on the left, he looked him off and forced a contested shot that (of course) he missed allowing NJ to stay in the game.

    • why

      down the stretch of regulation time

  • JHP

    Sad to say but a very nice tank job. I’m sure BC will start the hype about waiting till next year. Just give me an extension and things will be ok 🙂

  • Webcrawler89

    I agree with most of this post. I do think however though, that Bargnani is capable of being a really positive factor for us (I remember a game last year where he played really good man-2-man D on Tim Duncan.) I just don’t think he tries, or he is taught properly what to.

    The same goes for our defence. There are some stupid rotations and switches that we make that are unnecessary. We need a real defensive coach on this team.

    • minks77

      You remember that one time he D’d up Timmy real well but blissfully ignore the other 75 games where he didn’t break a sweat on the glass or on D?

      We need a real defensive centre on this team. We’ve needed it for years. Ever since the days of AD/Oak/Willis/Keon and JYD. Not a murderers row of highlight material but guys who played their positions well, defended with tenacity and got after loose balls. Problem with Andrea? he doesn’t do any of those things well or consistently and his offense, while tantalizing at times, is overrated.

  • Daniel

    The coaching was criminal. DeRozan (lack of dribble) and Bargnani (tunnel vision) are not ISO guys. I shook my head quite a few times during the game and especially during the 4th Q and OT. It is obvious to me we are not being coached to win but to develop players. The “Plan” talked about from Peddie to BC to coaches is a loadfull of BS. There is no plan when you put your destiny in a lottery. In crunch time the offense looked the same as ever during the Mitchell or Triano era. The difference is in defense which is much worse under Triano. I said it before, we are wasting our time judging players: we need new vision and new coaching in order to give us a chance.

    • Jose


      “There is no plan when you put your destiny in a lottery.”

      Well said Daniel. We seem to be stuck between (BryCo’s 5 years) of gambling and the lottery. If BryCo had any plans we should be seeing some results by now. But, hey, let’s give him another 5 years to see if he can properly re-tool (re-fool us IMO), as it turns out Bosh was not a guy to build around.

      • Nilanka15

        The previous 5 years centered on building around Bosh. Obviously that plan failed miserably.

        All Colangelo’s moves since this summer need to be viewed with a different eye, with the assumption that he learned from that mistake. Then again, if he’s now attempting to build around Bargnani (yet another soft, jump-shooting, finesse big man), we’re in deep shit.

      • Smushmush

        Yeah, MLSE should give BC 5 more years after making the team hit rock-bottom and a joke in the league so that he can now bury the team for good smh. What is up with Toronto sports organizations and being charmed by talentless but charismatic folks as GMs? (see JP Riccardi and BC as evidence lol).

        • Jose

          Check the TSN site and Jack Armstrong’s piece “Armstrong: What’s wrong with Heat and right with Raptors” 🙂 Seeing the title alone one would think that the Raptors are actually 43-20 team and the Heat are 17-46. MLSE is doing an outstanding job paying Armstrongs and Smiths to deliver enough BryCo cool-aid to the masses. This is just incredible.

  • MET

    I am not a Bargs apologist by any means. However, like it or not, this team wins when he scores 25 plus and loses when he hovers around 20 (see the split stats nba.com). No other offensive player on the roster has that much impact (check the numbers…not Derozan or Calderon).
    In terms of defense, Triano whether it be because of his lack of experience and/or his relationship to the players has yet to convince any of starting rotation to commit to defense. Defense is as much about desire and commitment as basketball smarts. This young team just does not want to play tough defense enough. One key element that has to be addressed this summer,then, must be getting a veteran on this lineup that can help instill this ‘attitude’ in the players while Bargs, DD and ED continue to develop (I would rather have a crazy defensive minded Ron Artest than another Kleiza).

    • Theswirsky

      “this team wins when he scores 25 plus”

      this team has lost 15 games when he scores 25+ points (he has done it 24 times)

      this team has won 7 of 17 games when he scores less than 25 points

      This team wins when he shows some semblance of effort and defense.

      • yertu damkule

        i’m not sure where you arrived at your numbers. not counting games he missed, the raps are 10-14 when he scores 25 or more points, and 5-26 when he scores less than 25. he’s scored exactly 25 3x, and the raps are 1-2 in those games.

        as most know, i’m not exactly his biggest fan, but we do ourselves a disservice (both his fans & haters) when we aren’t accurate.

        • Theswirsky

          I did count the lost games wrong.. it is 14 losses

          Team lost 14 games when he has scored 25+ (ie. they don’t win just because he scores 25+)

          Won 7 (including the game he wasn’t there for) of their 17 total wins, when he scored less than 25 points

          … the difference is 7 wins vs 10 wins…..

          MET’s idea was that Bargnani scoring has a big “impact” on wins. My point is the difference is margninal. What they need is him to play D and try…. then you will see a significant improvement in wins and game play.

          • MET

            My idea is as the team is currently constructed Bargs has the biggest offensive impact on the team. I do not think that it is a coincidence that he averaged 25 a game in their wins this season. As yertu points out, they have only won 5 games when he has failed score at a decent clip.

            Once again, I am not a Bargs defender. I have no problem trading him for something decent in return. All I am saying is that offensively he clearly is Triano’s number one scoring option and without him effectively scoring this defensively challenged team struggles on the other side of the ball. In fact, Derozan may take over the mantle next year or our lottery pick may come out of the gate blazing but presently Bargs is it.

            In terms of defense, swirsky and I seem to agree other than the fact I think that it is a more collective problem with the raptors than one “lazy” guy.

  • Guest

    Dudes – this was a key game and a must lose. Glad for the good effort and exciting game but gladder for the loss. The more ping pong balls the better.

  • shawn

    the problem i have with the 2 attempts Bargs took were that they were both contested fall-away Jumpers. Hump stayed within his defensive principles and didn’t bite on the up fakes. Bargs never made an attempt to go around…. just a static fall back that was probably a 20% shot. I think Triano liked the fact that he got position at the top of the key on the first one and said: ‘ let’s give him another rep at that play, he’ll probably get it the second time….” That was a Bargs mistake, not Triano’s

    • hound

      you are wrong. look at miami. they try to do the same thing, isolate someone and hope that his individual greatness pulls it out. the coach can then transfer the blame to the player when it doesn’t. “we put it in the hands of our best player” bullshit. your job as a coach is to try to win. That is done by running a play that has a high success rate, not giving it to one guy and hoping. Especially, when all you need is a 2 and you have 11 seconds left on the clock. The last second shots were all on JT, not DD or Bargs.

      If you watch a college game, they always run some sort of play with ball movement and player movement that generates the best shot against the defence played. They do not isolate their best individual player all the time. Sometimes they do, but only as a guard driving who kicks it out half the time. This is because the coach doesn’t have to stroke egos.

      If you want to put the blame on someone, it is the coaching staff entirely. The only two clutch isolation players in my lifetime are Michael and Kobe, and last I checked we don’t have either one. I just hope the Heat continue to let Lebrick try to win the games in isolation at the end of critical games. Rupaul and co. will be playing beach volleyball while the real TEAMS, no I in team, are still competing for the championship.

      • Guest

        I don’t mind Bargs taking hump off the dribble but if u only need 2 points why start the play @ the 3 pt line?

      • shawn

        i still think that the coaches liked getting the ball to a good shooter at the foul line. they figured they had a high percentage shot. Bargs wasn’t able to get a make or a foul on either chance. If a “star player’ gets a second chance at the same play, you have to think he’ll do better the second time.
        On the other hand, by saying it was Bargs’ mistake doesn’t mean he’ll never make a clutch shot, just that he chose an option that didn’t work….twice.

  • Salspouch

    we have to accept Bargs is a 20-5 guy or move on, I think it would probably help his career to move somewhere where he is not under so much pressure to be the face of the team, but if were sticking with him we can’t have Reggie Evans as the one and only Center and I’m pretty sure he was listed as a PF too

  • fine Bargs got his stats… so did DD but it took 3OT to make them look that good… if the game finished in the 4th obviously wouldn’t of been the same. What I don’t get is when being tied in the 4th and being down 1 in 3OT why did we SETTLE for a jump shot? aren’t “they” supposed to take it to the hole for a higher percentage shot, and if it fails then at least there is a better chance you might get fouled if you take it hard? Then at least we end up at the free throw line….? i really don’t know about those last 2 plays…. weeek….and honestly Sasha Vujacic having a career game against us lol… just sad. would have been nice to split the games out in London for Histories sake… haha but at least we are closer to a higher draft pick now.

  • WhatWhat


    Look at Bargs’ last shot @ about the 2:40 mark. It’s just so freaking atrocious. It’s like he didn’t want to play anymore. Look at the spacing on the floor too. You can’t take Hump off the dribble man?!? I am disappoint, White Swan. But on the other hand: Irving…Irving…Irving. This isn’t even “hate”, it just really is a horrible, horrible shot. I ain’t even mad though. I just literally laughed after he took it.

    BUT Triano did show some improvement: He kept Bargs and Calderon off the floor on key defensive possessions.

    Anyways, I’d like to see more 2-5 pick and rolls with DeRozan and White Swan.

    Davis and Bayless were the only two players that played D. We allowed the freaking Nets to have an offensive rating of 120…just disgusting.

    Other thoughts:
    -Amir and JJ sucked in both games.
    -Bayless outplayed Calderon in both games, and looks much healthier. (Note that one of his huge knee braces is gone.)
    -Just imagine if Calderon had to guard D-Will on that shot in the clutch, with the floor spread out like that lol.
    -Ed Davis is going to be a VERY good player; the steal of the lottery. He also should’ve been playing more in the OTs.
    -Hump finally is playing under control. The guy always had talent.
    -Barbosa’s D was TERRIBLE at some points.
    -I LOVE how completely went away from DeRozan after that incredibly hot start by him.
    -Not sure why Weems got such little PT.
    -Bargs has regressed a lot, imo. His defense and rebounding have got a lot worse, while his offense has stayed the same.

    • John

      Maybe they should give Amir Johnson to take the last shot 😉
      The fascination of Raptor fans with scrubs is just astonishing. Last year, they were all hating on Bosh who was the best player on the team. This year is all about AB.

      If it was not because of AB last night, this game was over by half time and Raptors down 30 points. The guy kept us on the game so scrubs like Amir and Bayless and James Johnson grab few rebounds and …

      All this love for scrubs has led to a Crappy team that we have now in which we do not pay talented players anymore, we pay D-League role players an starter salary because we know our fans gets excited with this nonsense.

      • Theswirsky

        “Maybe they should give Amir Johnson to take the last shot”

        it couldn’t possibly have been any worse than Bargnani.

      • WhatWhat

        People criticized Bosh because they were truly questioning whether he was a franchise player. The saw a lack of toughness and leadership. And guess what? He’s crying after games and the Heat are having serious problems right now.

        What the hell do you mean that the game was over by halftime? We were only down by 2 or 3.

        The last shot should have gone to DeRozan, Barbosa or Bayless. They surely would have taken something more likely to go in.

        Our fans aren’t excited about this “nonsense” either. Hence why MLSE is going to freeze ticket prices for the next few seasons, and the ACC has been looking noticeably more empty.

  • guest

    What I saw tonight was the team seemed to play better together. I loved seeing the young guys on the floor in a game like this and getting that experience. Calderon can not guard elite PG’s…end of story. While he ends up with a lot of assists, the team continues to lose. We have seen enough of Jose and Andrea to know what they bring and it is not all that impressive. For the last 1/3 of the season, run with the young guys. Give them a lot of minutes so that we can really see what we have. Let them build chemistry. This team has experimented with more starting lineups than I care to remember and that is part of the problem. Almost every game that Bayless has had decent minutes, more than 15 he has played well. Davis is playing well. Once Derozen got the nod over Sonny he has really played well. Players need to know what their role is and then be given minutes to develop. You are correct, insanity is doing the same thing over and over when it is not working.

    • Guest

      get a new handle.

  • Bau

    I bet you that a lot of the Bargnani haters were praying that he would miss the game-winning shot, otherwise they’d be hearing it on these forums lol.

    • Mike D

      You actually don’t have to pray for a clutch Bargnani miss. It just sort of happens…

      • Bau

        Like the time he gave us the lead in OT with the 3 pointer he hit? Or that time in New York earlier in the season? He’s hit some big 3s this year you know.

        • Fletchmer

          I don’t care who you are kobe, james or nash the chances of that jump shot going in was very very low. The problem with this team as we seen late in the 3rd ( I think) when bargs was on the bench we had zero offense and marginal defense at best. Guys were either getting stripped driving or missing shots. DD turned invisible, not sure how that happened when a guy starts as hot as him. But our options when it comes to making a shot are limited. Still couldn’t we have drawn up something better. This is the same type of last minute shot we seen last year except Bosh would be about 10 feet closer and try to force a fade away jumper which I cannot remember ever going in

      • C.d.G.

        How can you stupid idiot call yourself “a fan” as you spend the most of your time being content that one of the Raps just failed to hit the winning shot? And you get surprised if they call you a hater?
        You’re another one with no reasons. People like you should disappear.

    • yertu damkule

      or, it could be that those who’ve been deemed ‘haters’ are simply bigger fans of the team than they are of one player, and the loss kinda/sorta helps them in their rebuild (depending, of course, on just how shitty you believe the ’11 draft to be).

  • 2011

    Don’t feel too bad, these Nets are a much better team with Deron Williams. They are not the same Nets we faced earlier in the year.

    • RapthoseLeafs

      Yes …. If Williams resigns, he will be the steal of that trade.

  • Mediumcore

    This was the best out come anyone could have hoped for. We lost both games which put us that much closer to gaining the number one pick in the draft while still competing in both games. The three players that the Raptors have the most riding on going into next year, Demar, Ed and Andrea all played really well in both games, and I would argue that once you come to terms with what Andrea’s game is that he did play well. Really quite pleased with the trip.

  • Very good analysis.

    I was watching the Clippers game last night and Blake was again passing the ball well of double teams.

    However, more relevant to that is that again when Blake was open for a 15 to 20 foot jump shot which he can make he would instead passed it down low to an open Clipper who had a higher percentage shot.

    Of course yesterday Lopez was blocking everything down low totally out-muscling Amir to block his weak effort at the rim.

    Raptors play way too much one on one ball on offense.

    Both DeRozan and Bargnani are the worst when it comes to passing the ball to someone open with an easier shot.

  • VanRap

    Reading these posts from A-Dub, Arsenalist etc ( the hater crew) is getting real old.
    Derozan had a decent game, but he missed 3 or 4 shots down the stretch while we were up and that is why NJ cam back to tie the game.
    o pts in the 2nd and 3rd quarter, tonnes of bricks.

    Followed by a lot of pouting and sulky looks on the floor and in timouts by derozan.
    You guys clearly love your stats, but you don’t really get the game.
    Please go to a basketball camp or something, start with a junior camp, cause i’m guessing you pretty much are garbage at this game, so you write about it and nut hug guys like Amir (sucked so badly in London) and Derozan (decent game, no d , terrible passer, actually passing is last option, ball hog).

    You say your a fan of this team, but if your really are, then you know Derozan is another Vince. A couple of hard knocks, he’ll stop driving and become a diva, jump shooter. He has already started to show that annoying “i’m the man” attitude.

    Yet, all this and you continue to deride Andrea. I’m not a nut hugger of his and have been criticized him as well, but he had a great game, great rebounding, took charges, made big buckets and yet you make it sounds like he was shit.

    Get over it, he is a good player, not a super star. Stop being so fucked up about.

    Especially if you’re going to push Derozan based on opinion and nothing else.

    Just write us a balanced look at the game and take your Derozan pics of your wall for a second.


    • yertu damkule


      dude, if DD hasn’t made progressions by his 3rd or 4th year, you really don’t have to worry about the folks at RR ripping him a new one game-in & game-out. actually, he gets ripped quite a bit now, all things considered, and deservedly so. but, he’s still really raw, blahblahblah, ah, fuckit.

      it’s so comical, i can tell what ‘kind’ of a fan most posters are within the first 2 sentences. if a comment starts out by criticizing the writers for being ‘negative’ or ‘haterzz,’ there’s a 99% chance that at some point in the rant there’ll be a ‘hey, i’m not bargnani apologist, but…’ followed by a paragraph of….bargnani apologies. it. is. awesome.

      • RapthoseLeafs

        It’s frustration, and to some extent, the constant badgering on Bargnani that gets to some fans. Some days the analysis is great, then there are days like this one, where it seems so biased. Most days I like reading A-dub … but not this post. It’s a rant, that’s too focused on one player because he didn’t hit that shot (or the other one), and to a lesser extent, his fg% for the night.
        From my vantage point, I thought we lost this game in regulation time. Some players went missing for big parts of the game – even though 30 points did help (with a decent fg%). And to hear that Andrea’s per 36 wasn’t that good, based on 50+ minutes, he had 26 points & 9 rebounds by the end of regulation. And that was with Jay holding him out for most of the 4th quarter – a major f*@k-up, and part of the reason for our loss.

    • Kell

      Check the box score, he scored 30 points, on back-to-back nights, idiot. And you know what? DeMar is averaging over 16 ppg in his second season, Bargnani averaged 10.2 in his 2nd season, and 15.4 ppg in his 3rd. This is DeMar’s team, you don’t like it? Then gtfoh.

      • lol

        DD is scoring so much only why 2-3 defender are on BARGS, did you see ONE game? Not?

        • Jerrycurl

          How do I translate this to English?

          • Nilanka15


    • WhatWhat

      Dude, you sound exactly like a White Swan apologist.

      Here’s a good stat: Despite missing a good chunk of the season AND playing half as many total minutes Davis has already grabbed more rebounds (315) than White Swan (311).

      I want to and everyone else to just try and think why people “hate” on White Swan so much. But I’ll lay it out for you: In his 4.5 years in the league, he’s only shown improvement once. He’s an historically poor rebounder and atrocious defender, AND he’s regressed in those areas this year. Let me repeat: He’s regressed. BC himself, said to give Bargs five years. It’s his fifth year, and he’s not going to get it.

      The complete lack of defense was why NJ came back into the game and ended up winning, NOT because DeRozan missed a few shots.

      “Followed by a lot of pouting and sulky looks on the floor and in timouts by derozan.
      You guys clearly love your stats, but you don’t really get the game.
      Please go to a basketball camp or something, start with a junior camp, cause i’m guessing you pretty much are garbage at this game, so you write about it and nut hug guys like Amir (sucked so badly in London) and Derozan (decent game, no d , terrible passer, actually passing is last option, ball hog).”

      Ad nauseam attack. Secondly Amir and DeRozan are having career years. White Swan is not-his best year was last season. “No D, terrible passer, actually passing is last option, ball hog.” Gee, that sounds a lot like Bargnani, doesn’t it? 12 boards in 3OT isn’t great either?

      Also, DeRozan’s assist rate has nearly doubled this year. It’s still low though. He’s not another Vince either. You’re basing that on what? On his reportedly very high hard work ethic? On the fact that he keeps attacking the basket despite the fact that he gets regularly shafted by the refs? How about that game where he hit his head hard on a shot attempt, yet kept attacking the basket? He’s finally starting to realize how aggressive he needs to be, and as of now he is “the man.” I don’t see how that’s a problem either, since you don’t see him boasting.

      He’s not a good player, or a bad one. He’s a mediocre player.

      His matchup Lopez scored as well as he did? He did not have a great game, nobody did. You don’t just blatantly ignore the defensive end of the court like that.

      DeRozan has shown more improvement this year, than Bargs has shown in his entire career. You wanna talk about Bargnani’s 2nd year? DD’s sophomore season trumps Bargs’ 3rd season too. If DeRozan doesn’t pan out, don’t worry, we’ll criticizing (not hate on) him too. But I doubt he won’t pan out, because he doesn’t blatantly say that he’s lazy in articles.

      You just derided DeRozan to bring up Bargnani.

      Bargs is both overrated and underrated. He’s a really, really average player.

      And stop with this shit of questioning if people are fans of the team or not.

      Calderon plays hard, but he’s a shitty defender because he’s really freaking slow. Bargs is a poor defender and rebounder because he’s lazy. HUGE difference there.

      • Pap

        Define a mediocre player? Mediocre is not DeMar’s ceiling, get a clue moron.

        • WhatWhat

          Mediocre player: A player that doesn’t really excel in most areas of the game. He can contribute positively, but can’t carry a team. Something like that.

          And where did I say that DeRozan’s ceiling is mediocrity? Unless: “He’s not a good player, or a bad one. He’s a mediocre player.” I was talking about Bargnani there. Or at least meant to.

          But thanks for the carefully constructed argument of calling me a moron.

          • Pap

            Didn’t seem that way upon reading it, you wrote that mentioned sentence in a follow up to your paragraph on DeRozan, made it look like you were referring to him.

  • guest

    Get a life!

    • Guest

      get a new moniker

  • hateslosing

    My Biggest issue in this game: Derozen shots something like 6 for 7 in the first quarter and is having his way with the Nets defense. Now we start the second and Jay takes him out and I’m like, “ok he needs a breather, let him sit till the ten minute mark and get him back in quick so he doesn’t cool off”. At about the 5 minute mark Jay puts him back in and his rhythm is gone. This has been an issue with this team since Jay took over: you have a player that is burning it up and he almost intentionally puts them on ice.

    • Fletchmer

      Noticed the same thing it is like your too hot sit down and cool off, He seems to do it to everybody never made sense to me but I am not getting paid the big bucks

    • marques johnson

      Same issue with Bargs. Whether you like him or not, he was smoking 24 or 25 through 3 and leaves him sitting for 6 min then no one gets him the ball. Rautins seemed astounded Triano was sitting a player that hot for so long and I had to agree

  • joey

    what if the raptors were being coached by the ibm computer watson instead of triano?
    better yet what would happen if it had the role of general manager and president over colangelo?

    interesting article on these possibilities from the sloan conference:


    at the end of the day, mlse would jump at the chance at doing it only if it generates increase in revenue as a primary priority instead of an increase in the win column.

  • Dookielove

    losers tend to not see the big picture, the whole picture. losers typically fixate on one thing or one person to blame everything on. losers have made bargs the scapegoat for this teams ill’s. bargs has become, “the man”. he’s keeping the losers preoccupied while they fail miserably at life.

    • yertu damkule

      i think the ‘losers’ have made bargs the scapegoat of his own shortcomings…the apologists make everyone else the scapegoat for his shortcomings.

      • RapthoseLeafs

        [ ” … the apologists make everyone else the scapegoat for his shortcomings.” ]

        I can’t agree with this statement. While I don’t aspire to Dookie’s perspective, I do believe the “dislike” is heavily weighted towards Andrea. To the extent, that even when he does well, it’s the same old response – pick out the bad parts, and run with it.
        I’m a fan of Andrea (which you know), but I’m also a fan of a number of players on this team – even in their developmental stage – which I feel Andrea is still in. Yeah, he’s been here 4.5 years, but I think we forget all the crap this team has been through. A SF one day, a PF the next, a Centre later on, a Bench guy the next. It’s confusing enough to arrive in a foreign land, with limited language skills, and have no real base upon which to develop one’s talents. Plus it doesn’t help when you’re 1st overall pick, but could’ve gone 5th just as easily. Winning the lottery was not much of a win – Roy or not (and that was a bad pick in my eyes).

        To those who think we can easily replace his scoring, like those guys are a dime a dozen – I respectively disagree. One can point out usage stats, but truth is, playing heavy minutes takes its’ toll on players. That’s why I personally despise the per 36 stat. It’s unrealistic, and overstated too often. It does provide some benefit, but not in the way most Stat folks use it (or misuse it).

        I also believe Demar has great potential, and mediocre is not how I would define his potential (as was stated by someone). I look at Davis as a great pick, who will excel with time, and 20 more pounds of muscle. In some respects, I think he could be the Chandler type we need alongside Andrea.

        As for Amir, I see him as the classic role player – off the Bench, who can provide an energy to the game. Outside of these guys, the rest may stick around, or be gone soon enough. If we get a guy like Kyle at the draft, then I can see Jose hanging around for a long time – being a mentor, and top level back-up PG (when the new PG takes over). Bayless I have no faith in – that tunnel vision is too strong.
        Point is, we have talent, and a number of shortcomings. And yes, a guy like Bargnani may become the 6th man, should we become a Contender. But until we get there, we have more pressing needs to resolve. And yes, that includes a traditional (quality) Centre – which unfortunately are hard to come by. If we get a “Chandler”, then we can assess the situation and move on from there. But until we do, we need to focus on filling in the parts, hoping one day we’ll find that franchise player everyone seems so preoccupied in getting.

    • So people who are critical of Bargnani are “losers” who “fail miserably at life”? I’m sorry, but are you aware how insulting many of your comments are?

      If you don’t want Bargnani fans to have a bad name, might I suggest not writing crap like that.

    • Nilanka15

      How is identifying ONE PLAYER as “the man” seeing the “big picture”. It’s hard to contradict yourself in 3 lines, but you’ve done it masterfully.

  • AnthonyF

    I’m out of here…… Too much timer spent reading and replying to the anti-Bargnani drivel. Does he have shortcomings and still lack some b-ball IQ? Yep….. But to read the same spiteful nasty crap over and over regardless of the game he plays, congratulations you’ve sent another reader packing…. Continue slavishing praise on end of bench players, who can defend the paint and put up 6 points a game…..

    • Nilanka15

      Good riddance.

      “Continue slavishing praise on end of bench players, who can defend the paint and put up 6 points a game…..” It’s nonsense comments like these that make fanboy comments so easy to dissect.

      YAY POINTS!!!

  • Ol’ Dirty Raptor

    this team has had the same problem since the last days of vince: no legit center. when bosh was a rookie he had to play the 5, and we sucked.

    bargnani was drafted in the hopes he could be a big 3, but it was quickly learned he wasn’t quick enough to play that position at the nba level. the natural shift would be to the 4, but guess what? we already had cb4 firmly holding that position, putting bargnani way out of position from what he was used to, hence the brutal 2nd year.

    so it shouldn’t be a surprise that our best season was when we had rasho (not great, but a serviceable center) holding down the middle.

    of the best assets on our current roster, three are power forwards. what if you could trade one of them for a good defensive center, or a dynamic young point guard? i’m looking for BC to move one of davis, AB, or Amir in the offseason.

    • RapthoseLeafs

      As much as I like Amir and his dedication, his value is such that he would command a pretty decent return. Whether Andrea is here or not (and that would mean a Centre takes his place), my gut feeling says Davis will overtake Amir – resulting in AJ being moved, or relegated to a Bench role. Can’t see him staying if the latter occurs.

  • GermanFan

    Hahahaha what a comment! What a game!! What a incompetent coach!!!! Your best player (Bargs and NOT DD!) is on fire and you send him to the bench 1/2 of the 4th quarter????? In this time NJ had a breack of 10-0 (i’m not sure). And you all here are blaming Bargs therefore???? Are you totally insane? With Jay Triano??? LOOOOOOOOOOOOL what a bullshit.
    THIS TEAM IS A D-LEAGUE TEAM WITHOUT BARGS! Please re-name this forum: BargsHatersForum.
    Please please Triano go away, please go fast, go now!

    • Nilanka15

      This team is a D-League team WITH Bargs. He’s not our savior.

      • lol

        LOL he shoul save the team? HOW???

  • EuroPussy

    First of all, sorry again my bad english.
    I was saturday at the O2 Arena in London whatching the second game.
    Terrible athmosphere, the people do not understand nothing about basket! It was so funny, all the people were boooing every free throw amd after the same if it was good than all were screeming ohhhhhh. Representatyve for the public: “ohhhh what a shot, Tom go and take som beer please” LOL. Sorry but i cannot understand why London (yes i know, because the olimpic games), Barcelona or Madrid or Rome, Milan would be much better becaus there the people likes basket.
    About the game.
    Honestly, i’ve never seen a team WITHOUT any combined play like the Raptors. Really, no basket-iq except Calderon and Bargnani. DD had at the beginnig a good time but only because no one of the Nets was defending on him, all were concentrated (you understand this?) on Bargs. But mayby is this the only strategy (?) of Triano.
    Cannot understand that Triano sended Bargs to the bench for 6-7 minutes, after this he has been ignored and got no a decent pass during the 4/4.
    Of course, the last shot at the end of the 1st and 3th ot ware a bad decision of Bargs, he should go to the basket and take mayby a foul, but he decidet for shooting and missed. But honestly WHY NO ONE BLOCK for him in this situation?
    Really, i’m not only a Bargs fan but the problem of this team is the coach because they have NO CHOACH.
    My opinion.

  • kaine

    derozan missed a game winner too. (also lebron, so to speak)
    i’m not excusing bargs, he could try something better. but an ISO of a big man away from the basket it’s always a bad decision. when that happens to Dirk, they put him on the free throws line with a clear look at the rim.

    bargs made before 2 great clutch plays: the charging on lopez that send him out , and a massive 3.

    triano is just atrocious. after all this time his management of the games is really bad.

    I hope to see finally a decent coach on toronto’s bench. I’ll really overpay Sloan.

    • EuroPussy

      You’r absolutely right.

  • Everyone,

    I can’t tell you how many times I counted someone calling someone else an idiot, moron or other similar name in the above thread, usually because they simply disagreed with someone’s opinion. Can we please put a stop to it? You’re not adding ANYTHING positive to the conversation when you do that. It bothers people who really have something to say, it brings the entire level of conversation down and it chases away moderate people who would actually add to the conversation.

    Thank you.

    • Sizz

      They come here for the excitement, they seem to get a kick out of people’s reactions to insults. Ignore them and they’ll go away, because they sure as hell won’t stop upon request.

  • sleepz

    Ignore this post if your looking for substance.

    Last year I felt there was a lot of unnecessary criticism towards Bosh. He’s gone now so who cares, but at the same time based on his performances I thought the critisim was often unwarranted.

    Often, the critiques were directed from those who couldn’t wait to see him gone and “what Bargnani and the rest of the team” could accomplish without the ‘ballstopper’

    I can’t forsee the future, but I had a feeling #7 would be front and center this year and the spotlight has indeed fallen upon him. I feel somewhat compassionate that he is often blamed for the teams problems. He never asked to be put in this position (thats BC’s doing) but I also fault him because if he just played hard more often than not his faults and weaknesses would be more readily excused. Because he doesn’t leave it out on the court every night many fans of this team take offence to it and rightfully so. Carter was a far greater talent and was traded for his lack of effort and desire to be here as no player should be exempt from being moved, yet Andrea seems to be the exception due to an enabling and stubborn GM. Don’t hate the player, hate the game right?….. but at the same time it is what it is, as I’ve just used 2 worn out cliches in one sentence.

    While I feel somwhat compassionate for Bargnani I don’t feel compassionate for the Bargnani fans that chose to villify and diss Bosh last year or new targets this year (Derozan, A Johnson, Weems), but now are in defence mode for Andrea. Not saying all of you are like that but for those who know who they are, the shoe is on the other foot and it doesn’t feel right does it?

    • RapthoseLeafs

      I was a big fan of Bosh. I liked his energy, and his abilities. But along the way, I got to hate the youtube crap (y’all vote for me), and the MAX contract talk (he’s not worth it). By the end, it became a side-show, which didn’t impress the faithful.

      I don’t hate the guy. I just hate the last year, and to some extent, I hate the arrogance that goes with some players. I hate the concept of 3 star players (or 2 & 1/2 men) on one team.

      What I do enjoy, are the Steve Nash’s of the NBA – MVP type skills with a great attitude and love of the game. Watching Nash play in the Conference final with one eye pretty much shut, completely defined what I think is a total player. If anything, Amir resembles that attitude – unfortunately his abilities do not. And I’m not saying he’s not a good player – just nowhere near Steve skill set.

      As for Bargs, I’ve always believed that a good Coach can make him better. Jay is a nice guy, but that’s part of the problem. He’s too soft, and too “player orientated” for my liking. At the other end of the spectrum is Sammy – who I think affected too many players – not just AB. When it comes to Coaches, I like Popovich. To me, he represents authority and skill. Plus a winning attitude.

  • FAQ

    OT: From hoopshype blog:

    …..”The Wizard of Oz.”

    LeBron James has to get courage, Dwyane Wade a brain, and Chris Bosh some heart? And this crying, especially by Bosh, is supposed to show that they’re too weak for the task? All of this because they lost four games in a row?

    Read more: http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/benson/2011/03/07/no-crying-in-basketball/#ixzz1Fw70AW5w

    • Jose

      Nothing wrong about crying after losing 4 games in a row IMO. They simply show that they care. I respect that.

      I yet have to see any Raptor getting upset with their current team record or individual performance.

  • Fivedefy

    to all the people talking about bargs putting up big numbers yesterday – let me ask you this: how many shots did he take? answer? a lot. which is usually the case. dude kills his team by shooting practically every time he touches the ball.

    can’t stand watching him anymore. literally. won’t watch the raps until he’s gone.

    • RapthoseLeafs

      Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

  • RapthoseLeafs

    For that final game in Londonerry, it was part way through the 3rd overtime period that one thought came to me. It’s been a great game, and I’d like to pull out a win, but at the same time, I would be content with a loss – all for the greater good … Kyle possibly.
    That last shot of the game was a brutal play, and one has to wonder what Jay was thinking. The conspiracy theorist in me says Andrea was ordered/given the task of “shanking the shot”. Again, all for the greater good. At least it was better than Bosh taking that 3 pt shot against Orlando to tie the game – wtf, no one reads his stat line.
    [ “All Colangelo’s moves since this summer need to be viewed with a different eye, with the assumption that he learned from that mistake.” Nilanka ]

    Couldn’t have said this better. Reading all the adverse comments about this team, one has to wonder what exactly do people want. Win more games & choose 9th in a poor draft. As far as I’m concerned, by Bargnani missing that shot, Raptors solidified their chances at a top 5 pick. I’d imagine some of the disgruntled Andrea folks really hoped he would miss, because not only would it make them feel better, it’d get Raps closer to the result they wanted anyways – a better draft pick. From a warped perspective, AB missing his shot was the right thing to do – for a change.
    As for minutes, I wish Jay had allowed Davis a taste of overtime. For the 2 games combined, Demar & Andrea shouldered fairly substantial minutes – which showed in their shooting averages for the second game.
    As a 2 game package, Demar & Andrea had a efg% of .522 and .490 respectively, while Humps & Lopez came in at .516 and .610. Better numbers for the Net guys, however, Toronto’s duo added 11 more points at the FT line. Where the difference was in the two games, involved the Point Guard starters. Williams had 37 points & 29 assists (.471 efg%), to Calderon’s 15 points & 21 assists (.238 efg%), although Jose played a total of 12 less minutes.
    As for Amir, I have to believe he’s not healthy right now. If he really is hurting, then pushing him to play (or allowing him to play) doesn’t serve any useful purpose. Jay seems to be reluctant to add more minutes to Davis’s court time, as he’s currently 300 minutes past his 1st college year, and 400 past his second year. With 19 games left, that’s another 430 minutes – which doesn’t include any potential play-off time. lol.
    All this being said, the next 19 games will define what direction Raptors take with respect to Weems, J. Johnson, and Bayless. That is, if it hasn’t already been decided.

  • corey

    i’d love to see Bargs in a Heat jersey right now. down in South Beach, crying with the rest of those babies.

    how anyone can defend Barg’s game is beyond me. if you look purely at scoring? well, then he is great. but if you know anything about the little nuances of the game? well, then Barg’s is awful. plain awful.

    i can’t believe that after 5 years people still defend this guy??? and that stupid arguement “what would we do without AB’s 22ppg?” well, i’d say, get more points from amir, jose, and ed davis. more importantly, we’d give up way less points. if BC has any sense, he’ll move Bargs in the off-season for a PG or a lottery pick.

    • Guest

      Bargs would be an amazing fit for the heat. Better than bosh because his shooting would fill a need and bosh’s iso play doesn’t.

      I think bargs has room to grow still but a trade for a very good pg would be great. Doable? Doubt it but i’ll hope it is.

    • lol

      LOL yes we all see how many points from amir, jose and ed davis. The problem is, Bargs is simply used totally wrong. Triano is the problem, not Bargs. Ohh DD is a future all star…Can’t stop laughing.

      • Corey

        i can’t stop laughing either. at yer suggestion that Bargs prob is his “usage” and that Triano is at fault. Bargani is a finess player. isnt that obvious after five freakin years??? nobody is gonna coach that outta him. it is who he is. his five double doubles for the year oughta say enough there.

        and as for triano? well, he is taking his marching orders from BC. he isnt making any real decisions, just giving guys minutes. when the raps brought in gherardini, fired sam mitchel, they made it clear AB is a very sensitive, thin-skinned guy.

        Bargani lacks the heart to be a top ten player in this league. if he is given alot of touches, he willl no doubt light it up. but you wont see many double soubles, or many blocks.

        btw, you can laugh all you want at my suggestion of more points from ed davis, amir and jose. but, points can be had much easier than stops, blocks and rebounds. and DDR is averaging 21.1 since the all star break, smartass.

        • lol

          Did i offend you?

        • lol

          Understand, Colangelo, Gherardini and Bargnani. The italian connecion is the problem.
          Oh shit, Triano is also a italian name (is it?), but i suggest to fire him and take a really good coach (like Messina, yes also italian :-))) ).
          I suggest also to rename this forum..

        • lol

          And again, sorry. Yes DD is averaging 21.1 since the all star break, but only because no one defends on him, IF you see some games you can see that all the time 2 or 3 (!!!!) defender are on Bargs. Did you see that? Did you? Ahh thank you.
          I didn’t know this word, smartass, i like it. lol

          • Jaam

            hes scoring because no1 defends him? lol thats funny, u should write comedy man cuz thats a great joke moron lol

          • corey

            nobody defends DDR? and thats why he is scoring? really? its not because he is uber talented??? mr lol, you r embarassing yerself. and bargani gets 2 or 3 defenders??? really? nobody on the raps draws a double team. btw, AB’s 3 shooting is at a career low, 0.338, and his turnovers up, blocks r down and so r rebounds from last year. when i called you smart-ass, i mispoke. i meant dumb-ass.

    • hound

      if he is that bad why would anyone give us a lottery pick?

  • Deadwrong

    Demar has more chance to become an all star and face of the franchise than bargnani to tell you the truth. Wherever you put bargnani either 4 or 5 hell still suck defensively. Imagine how many strong PF’s he has to defend every game and his only weapon is his jump shot which he cannot even do it consistently.

    • lol

      Oh and DD is a big defender? hahaha

      • deadwrong

        Its his second year dumbass and his minutes last season was like half of his minutes that he is playing ryt now. He still young (21 yrsold) and you expect him to have the bruce bowen defensive skills in him?. Bargs is 26 in his fifth season and still havent proven why toronto chose him to be a first overall draft pick.

  • deadwrong

    Bargs in heat would be a nightmare for spoelstra. Bargs cant play no defense inside and i think bosh is a better defender than him. He has to take 19 shots to score 24 or 25 points a game and I dont think bron and wade would let him do that. His stats would probably be 14 points with 4 or 5 rebounds a game. Illiguaskas could prolly do better than him.

    • hound

      Totally disagree. Dampier playing center, Bargs at the 4, Lebron, Wade and Bibby is a better lineup than with Bosh, because Bargs will play away from the basket allowing space for James and Wade to drive. Bargs defender has to stay with him or they kick the ball to him as he is a shooting threat. Bosh moves away from the basket and his defender stays at the elbow and hopes they dish it to him as witnessed the other night when Bosh was 1-18. At Dampier or Anthony will clean the boards, Bargs wouldn’t be needed for that. And Bargs wouldn’t shoot 20 shots as he wouldn’t touch the ball on many possessions. It is becoming obvious to the entire NBA that Bosh was/is a bad fit in Miami.

      • deadwrong

        Dampier cant even jump no more for rebounds dude. He is just a body inside the paint thats why Dallas let him go because he cant play with dirk no more. Bargs will be a good fit to miami if they have a much solid center but with their line up ryt now? It would be a disaster.