Raptors 97, Bobcats 98 – Box

Let it be first noted that the Raptors got proper-f***ed by the refs here. I’ve been ignoring the moaning that’s going on about the refs, writing it off to the zebras being generally inclined to let players play, and assuming that things were evening out. Not so last night when Andrea Bargnani got hit on the wrist on the game-winning mid-range jumper, a possession after DeRozan’s drive to the rim met with a Charlotte hack and a blank stare from the baseline ref. I don’t think this is a David Stern conspiracy because Stern doesn’t give two shits about the Bobcats and the Raptors, it’s just that the Raptors don’t have players that are known for being aggressive. This will self-correct over time, but right now it’s painful to take.

Much like against Philly, the Bobcats played some small ball with Biyombo in the middle and this time Casey stuck more or less with a bigger lineup, choosing to play to his strengths. When you do that you expect to give up things in transition and maybe some open jumpers, what you don`t expect is being out-rebounded and in fact, that`s exactly where you expect to gain an advantage. How the Raptors were a -1 on the glass and gave up 50 points in the paint while having two 7-footers playing most of the game is plain wrong. Andrea Bargnani`s two rebounds in 33 minutes and zero defense all game long, have a lot to do with it, but at least this time around he made up for it by having a strong offensive game.

Bargnani looked sharp offensively to start, and with Jeffery Taylor clamping down on DeRozan, Bargnani`s early offense was key. However, when the other team identifies you as a weak defensive link by having Byron Mullens isolate you, it`s an embarassing problem. DeRozan was getting roughed up by Taylor which left his backcourt mate, Lowry, to pick up the slack and that he did. He was involved in a battle with Kemba Walker and played him even, no more no less. Walker’s speed was a problem for Lowry and the UConn man got away with too much last night, especially considering Lowry’s main selling point is his defense.

The stalwart for the Raptors was Jonas Valanciunas, who is quickly becoming the only big on the Raptors who plays like a big (Ed Davis’s flash in pans not included). He fought with Biyombo and Mullens for positioning, went after the offensive boards as is always the case, and moved brilliantly without the ball. Instead of strictly living a vulturous existence off of the offensive glass, he had it passed to him on occasion in two-man sets and did well. One of the plays Casey runs a lot is a high-post where the center catches the ball above the elbow, with screens being set to open up back cut opportunities. It requires the center to deliver the ball and that’s an area Valanciunas needs to improve on. Bargnani’s in that position a lot too, and I think both are lacking in that department, but Valanciunas actually has a chance to develop that part of his game.

On the strength of Jonas, Lowry, and Bargnani, the Raptors were up 10 with 7 minutes to go in the third, but you just knew it wouldn’t last. I just didn’t think it would end in an immediate 13-0 run. It was a classic case of failing to close out a quarter. Some ill-advised jumpers by Bargnani and DeRozan, turnovers by the same, and the entire team failing to buckle down on defense and allowing Charlotte to run in transition. It was the very definition of wasting away all the hard work done up to that point. Sixteen fast-break points for Charlotte, and more critically, them playing the Raptors even on the glass gave them too many opportunities, and easy ones at that. It didn’t help that going up against Sessions and Walker, two good ball-handlers, the Raptors defense wasn’t able to force the turnovers they usually do.

Down a single point to start the fourth, Casey essentially had Davis, Kleiza, McGuire, Ross, and Calderon out there, which left you to wonder where the offense was going to come from (no idea why Kleiza replaced Bargnani 20 seconds into the fourth, and why McGuire replaced Lowry a minute in). Calderon was having an awful defensive game and a horrid offensive one where he insisted on passing the ball to his teammates in the least desirable spots on the court. This lineup pretty much conceded an 11-1 run to start the fourth, and the Raptors were down 10 before DeRozan, Bargnani, and Lowry even given a chance to pull ahead early in the fourth. I realize it’s a back-to-back, but c’mon, like c’mon.

DeRozan and Bargnani scored 5 each in a fourth stretch which saw the Raptors pull even at 93 with two minutes left, that run included DeRozan finally posting up effectively and Bargnani nailing a three after faking out two guys. The comeback was a remarkable feat considering the end of the third and the start of the fourth. The game looked to have shifted in the Raptors favor after DeRozan`s awesome And1, but Walker responded with a drive against McGuire for his own And1 that evened the affair. BTW, can those two TSN anchors f**k right off because they actually make you miss plays. I got a problem with this play because I have no idea why Lowry was guarding Walker, who was burning him all game, especially with McGuire on the court who was doing a decent job. The foul against Jonas was questionable.

The ensuing play for the Raptors was the right one: a screen for DeRozan to drive, Taylor trailed the play and when he caught up, DeMar faked him out for the foul – great move. Unfortunately, he missed a FT, thus giving Charlotte a chance to take the lead. The ensuing play was well defended for a while, with Walker covered by McGuire and Gordon by DeRozan, even the screen set was negotiated well and it came down to a one-on-one between Lowry and Sessions. Sessions pulled up for a jumper, Lowry could`ve done better, perhaps.

You know the final play – the contact on DeRozan`s drive was ignored, Calderon missed a deep but open three, Lowry’s shot was blocked, and Bargnani was hacked on the last shot with the referees remaining silent. Also, notice how Walker stepped out of bounds after Bargnani’s miss, the Raptors should’ve had the ball back:

It`s a tough one to swallow. You would pencil in DeRozan to have a big game against a rookie and he didn’t, and you’d expect Lowry not to be outplayed by Walker. Failing to net a rebounding advantage through our size is also disappointing and some of the responsibility has to fall on the guards for not boxing out, although the lion’s share is on you know who. Ideally, we would’ve been able to use Ed Davis and Johnson more, two of our “small bigs” who are supposed to be effective against such tactics but those two are far from reliable. Blame the refs if you must, but know that despite all that this could’ve been won.

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  • Pesterm1

    Listen to Butch Carter in this interview. He gives his take on why the Raptors are struggling. I have to agree. Seems like butch thinks our struggles are because we have too many players trying to have their  ” break out year”. Butch says you need established players if you want refs to take you seriously. Its time to trade some of our young guys for vets.

    gotta go: Bargnani, Davis and unfortunatley Ross ( I like this kid) are probably gonna have to go

    • 511

      Good interview. Don’t know if Butch Carter would fit the organization today but I kept thinking it’d be better if he was a part of it. 

      • 511

        Went back and listened to the Butch Carter interview with no distractions. Took a few notes.

        Interesting comments about teams ‘being selfish’, teaching individual skills as opposed to focusing on playing 5-on-5 summer league and how selfish is a lot better. Not a believer in summer league at all. ‘The best team in the summer league is the worst team in the league.’ 

        Impressed with DeMar DeRozan because he’s selfish about improving his skills. 

        NBA officials won’t pay attention to players who don’t have NBA skills. ‘You can’t put four guys out there who the officials are gonna blow the whistle against’. ‘They put Valanciunas in a situation where he’s the whistle guy … there was no time spent with him in the summer (showing him) this is what you’re gonna look at every night’. Basically, young players are not on a level playing field with the refs. 

        Bad teams come out of a timeout asking each other ‘what’s the play?’ (and good teams pick up on that, relay the info to an assistant coach and they counter it). A good team never repeats what was said in the timeout. 

        He’s hard on Bargnani. ‘He’s not great’. Biggest issue is that he’s not healthy, he’s missed a lot of games. He says the team hasn’t spent the time with him during the summer to develop his body so that it hardens, so that he doesn’t end up injured, missing 20 – 25 games. (He said earlier that ‘it’s hard to win in a man’s league if you don’t have your men to play the games’.)

        A problem with Bargnani, Butch says, is that he shoots with his right foot in front and there has only been one (right-handed) great shooter, Larry Bird, who’s been successful shooting off his right foot. He’d switch him around to get him to shoot off his left foot, it’d help him shooting and driving. But he thinks the franchise would be better if they moved him. He mentions moving Damon Stoudamire and Marcus Camby and how the team was better for it. He doesn’t think Colangelo has a choice about moving Bargnani. He also said Bargs is too quiet and that’ll hurt JV. ‘The four and five should be on the same page, sitting on the plane together, eating together’ … like that. 

        Other stuff as well. Never mentions TRoss, btw. 

        On young players, ‘You can’t win while you develop five guys, there’s not enough time to develop five guys’. 

        ‘The reality is NBA officials are not going to accept young guys who can’t play, can’t guard. They’ve seen the best players play over a ten or fifteen year span so he’s just gonna look the other way’. 

        So that’s some of what Butch Carter had to say. I actually don’t know if he would really fit anywhere into the Raptors organization. He’s probably a bit crusty for the country club I’d guess it to be. But it sure couldn’t hurt to consider some of what he has to say. 

        • i wish more people would realize this

          • FAQ

            I realized this …. long ago ….

        • Nilanka15

          Interesting point about Bargnani leading with his right foot.  I’ve noticed it before, but never really thought anything about it until I read your post, and pictured myself (also a right-handed shooter) leading with my right foot.  It would definitely feel clumsy/awkward (similar to a right-handed layup while jumping off your right foot).

          • 2damkule

            he’s been doing it forever (basically, he establishes his right foot as his pivot foot – backwards for a right-handed player), but assumed it was simply because he’s an idiot.  it’s a pretty nice way to limit your ability to drive to your strong side.

          • ghost

            Pierce also leads with his right foot…doesn’t seem to affect his shot or his ability to drive to the basket.

            • Nilanka15

              Well, I guess Bargnani is inferior for unrelated reasons then….

          •  That was one of the stupidest things he said. No wonder Carter isn’t a coach anymore. His perimeter offense is fine. Its his post offense that needs improvement. Bargs drives pretty well for a 7 footer.

        • Ho Tep

          You buried the lede. Carter explained what happens when your second unit isn’t up to the job. Last night made him look like Nostradamus.

          • 511

            True enough. Part of the ‘other stuff’. Started taking notes a few minutes in so didn’t get it all. 

    • Dan

      I would rather see Demar go before Ross. I think as the season goes on and he keeps having these up and down games his numbers will go back to what they were last year. Ross is already a better ball handler and jump shooter. If this team ever gets more talent or Jonas keeps progressing Demar will get bumped down to fourth option behind Andrea, Lowry and Jonas. Demar is not very effective without the ball. Ross with his shooting will compliment the lineup more. Demar is just Ronnie Brewer. You switch their places and Ronnie’s numbers go up on this team and Demars goes down on the Knicks.

      • BrainColangelo

        DeMar is nothing like Ronnie Brewer.  Brewer is a defender and spot up shooter (not a great one before this year).  DeMar is a little defence slasher. 

        • Destro


          DeMar is better than Ronnie Brewer lol

          What a horrible opinion…

          • Dan

            Ronnie Brewer.
            8.2 ppg 4.6 rbs 1.2 assists 0.7 stls. 47% fg 44% 3fg
            Ronnie play 24 mins and averages 6.5 shots per game.

            Demar Derozan
            19 ppg 5 rbs 1.8 assits 0.8 stls 45% fg 30% 3fg
            Demar plays 37 mins and averages 15 shots a game.

            Ronnies Rebounds assists and steals are all close to derozens in 13 less minutes. He also shoots it better then Demar. He is known as a better defender. You bump up his shots to 15 a game and his minutes and his stats are better the derozans.

        • Dan

          His game is very similar to Demar. Difference is other teams have had more talent and been able to use him as a role player. Demar would be no different. look at the teams Ronnie has been on. Most of them have been winning teams who make the playoffs. Raptors are 3 and 9. Knicks are 10 and two. Maybe it’s because they let a ronnie brewer type player act like he’s carmello anthony.

      • Destro

        So your telling me a guy averaging 19 points shooting 45 % whos actually one of the few guys on the team who consistenly drives the lane is gonna be a 4th option on THIS team :LAFF:
        Ross is not going to take anyones spot by making a couple 3s…

        So DeMar is equivalent to :

        8.2 PPG 2.0 FTA per game  who shoots 6.5 a game..

        Honestly the mods need to issue IQ tests before your allowed to post on here,some of the reactionary obsos are fckn terrible on this board…

        • p00ka

          Yeah, can you imagine someone was even riding Drummond’s stick over preseason performances, saying he’ll be a Dwight like all star by next year, and that Jonas will never be anything more than a serviceable C. Imagine the absence of IQ there. Oh wait, that was you.

          • Destro

            If you knew anything about the game you’d know he will be a dominant big in a few yrs BUT you dont so you stick with riding bargnanis pathetic dick….

          • Destro

            This faggot cant even lie properly i said his ceiling is about a 15/10 guy maybe all star but not perennial…

            faggot ass is mad GOOD !

            • 2damkule

              you lower the value of your insight with the use of derogatory language. 

            • Thetruth

              Don’t you lie, Destro. You bashed Valanciunas to no end this summer and said we would be lucky if he turns out to be a serviceable player. You never said his ceiling is 15/10 and you certainly never said he would make an all-star game.

              I told you this in the summer and I will remind you again….Don’t come riding on the Valanciunas bandwagon when he starts playing well because after all the crap you talked about him over the summer, you’re not welcomed!

              • Destro

                Pull up the posts you bum ass poster…

                I said he would struggle and he wouldnt be as much of an immediate impact player as yall think and save for a few games that opinion been dead ass….I said he could be an all star not a perennial all star you lying ass crumb…

            • Dude, you just said dominant big. Dominant big is not 15/10 and maybe all-star. So that switch your opinion around.
              Drummond has shown flashes of being a good player but that doesn’t mean he is going to be the next Dwight

          • Thetruth

            Great points p00ka. No one forgot about the shit Destro talked about Valanciunas and “white european players” (his words, not mine) over the summer. Destro is trash.

            • Destro

              White euros for the most part are trash…I could name dozens of complete and total failures for every Drazen Petrovic…U mad ?

        • Dan

          Your basketball iq is lower then most on here. Your the guy that resorts to name calling when you can’t back up your argument.
          You look at demars 19 points and thats it.
          Ronnie almost equals him in every other catagory except points. He also plays 13 fewer minutes takes 9 fewer shots a game and has a higher fg%. Use your IQ then smart guy to do the math. Then take the knicks 5 best players and put them on this team and see if you still want demar taking 15 shots a game over the more talented guys the knicks have

          • Dan

            Look at Ronnies stats from utah what he did with more shots. Still more efficient then Derozan. The reason the knicks are winning this year is because they don’t need a guy like Ronnie to lead there team in scoring. It’s why the raptors suck.

            • Dan

               I’m not on here arguing I think ronnie is a great player. I’m arguing Demar is not the star you think is. All the same points you make about andrea apply to demar. Two bc guys who don’t have to earn their playing time because they need to show BC knows what he is doing.

          • Destro

            I dont need to back it up son…only a fckn idiot would think Ron brewer is better than DeRozan in any way…

            Irony of making a stupid comparison and like that and bringing up IQ in the same sense…sit theee fuck down !

          • Yours is almost equivalent as his. Your asking to play Aaron Gray more over Amir and Davis. And now your saying Ronnie Brewer is better and efficient than DeMar just because he has been on winning situations. Its nice to have DRose and Deron Williams on your team while Demar played with nobody.

    • voy

      waaaaay too early to go looking for vets.  continue stockpiling young talent.  young teams often get screwed by the refs. doesn’t make it right but thats how it is. 

      this year, the most important thing is for dd to continue top develop, give jv minutes, see what we have in t.ross, feed ed consistent minutes to see if he can be a starter or at least replace the role amir plays,  see what you can get for amir, see what you can get for jose, see if quincy can do anything other than look like reggie evans, etc etc.

      I think the worse thing you can do is blow up the team looking to replace the young guys with vets, at this stage of the team’s development.


  • K.J.P

    Sour abut that Ref staring right at his foot in that picture……

    • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

      NBA reffing is like WWF they call what they want to call as in they manage the game ie superstar calls/non calls, as they see fit under the guise of the NBA’s playing regulations once you recognize that fact you shouldn’t get as emotional over losses like against the Bobcats as it’s (NBA basketball) all scripted reality sports tv sponsored by Stern….

      Another game last nite Washington’s SLivingston was in the same situation as AB late in the game shot attempt to tie or win game and he was fouled and no call was made by the refs.

      BC has instilled a losing culture (reputation) for the Raptors as NBA wide everyone expects them to lose under any circumstances no big deal if they get screwed they are Lottery bound anyways…..

      It’s past time for AB (Jose too what the fuck is he doing passing the ball the ball to Val late in the game with 2 seconds left on the shot clock shoot the fucking ball Jose) to be shipped the fuck out of the TDot- 13 games anyone?lmfao

  • NyAlesund

    F–k off Lowry. Really f–k off, bloody idiot. Two games, same mistakes. Idiot.

    I am officially Lowry’s hater.

    He is the our leader? Sure it is…………

    I prefer Kemba Walker………………………..

    I am understanding why McHale had a big fight with him. I am not interested about the stats, I only saw what he did in a crunch time, and it was enough………..

    • 2damkule

      i know, right?  like, it really only matters what happens in the last minute.  the previous 47 minutes?  totally inconsequential.  for example, at one point, KL was 5-7 for 19 points, but really, SO WHAT?  he made some bad decisions, and for some reason, couldn’t sustain 70% FG shooting – LOSER!

      also, bargs finished with a lot of points, and was pretty obviously fouled on his last shot…the 2 (or was it 3) offensive boards he gave up to CHA (byron fucking mullens! fo realz?) in the 1st few minutes of the game that resulted in at least 4 easy points are totally inconsequential.  it doesn’t matter that the raps lost by 1, those 4 points happened early, and therefore, don’t really count.

      • Pesterm1

         green font ? lol

      • Sinatras

        What about the early FT’s that were missed? i think it was 5 or 6 in the first quarter. Does Casey not realize how much those points would have meant at games end? this has happened the last couple of games!!!  Being paid this kind of money you should be at least a 80% FT shooter.Make any player under that put up 50 FT’s each practice!!!!

        • The Truth

           How many FTs did Casey miss?

          • Sinatras

            no!!!! Not casey. Read it again>I have never seen Casey throw a FT!!!! I said that were missed meaning by players!!!!!!

    • Destro

      HE basically put us back in the game early in the 4th qtr…He was droping dimes like a muthafucker…. 

      • NyAlesund

        “HE basically put us back in the game early in the 4th qtr” Really?

        Four quarter: Ross 5 points and 1 assist, Calderon 3 points and 2 assists, DeRozan 8 points, Bargnani 5 points and Valanciunas 2. Your man 0 points, 3 assists  and 2 blocks in his face. He puts us back…….for sure…..

        He is an idiot. How many games we have to wait before the our man takes the right decision? Off course you are fall in love with him for a while. After that………

        This team doesn’t need an hero, but basketball IQ. We don’t have one able to do the right thing in crunch time.

        Yesterday the right decision was to move that damn ball not a one man show, that cost us another painful lost.

        The right thing to do is trade Calderon for a legit point guard and move Lowry on the second unit.

        • Destro

          Were you watching ?
          If you were,you’d have no argument….

          • ghost

            Why would you even respond to this guy. He’s a f#cking moron!!!

            • NyAlesund

               Like you……………..

              • ghost

                Ouch…that really hurt. LOL.

        • FAQ

          Does that mean you concur with my characterization of Lowery as a “streetballing ballhog”…. from the start of the season and before he was injured?

          Kyle reluctantly passes the ball to somebody at the arc and then he just stands there… he doesn’t rune the baseline, or even run to player to whom he passed the ball.  It’s as if his brain goes into “Park” and waits for the ball to come back to him so he can make his heroic charge to the basket and only on the right side.

          Something very wrong here…….

  • Milesboyer

    Another year quickly slipping away. Time to start visiting Draftexpress…..wait, we probably won’t have our draft pick.  2015 could be the year the Raps claw for an eighth seed…I can’t wait.

  • Gman

    There was an absurd free throw differential last year as well and it didn’t even out.  So far we’ve shot 72 less free throws than our competition.  I don’t think it’s a conspiracy either, but I do think that it’s based on an ethnocentric bias coupled with the fact that we’ve been bad so long that they just assume that’s the way it is.  

    If you don’t believe that Americans have a deluded vision of the world tune in to their political blogs and watch them rant about the most insane stuff.  Your talking about a culture that is fed a superiority complex from the moment of their birth.  This is the best country in the world, the best medical system, the best blah blah blah…whether there’s any empirical evidence to back it up.  

    I lived in America for three years so I have a pretty vivid idea of what I’m talking about.  I once had an argument with an American health professional who was ranting about how bad the propaganda had told her Canadian health care was.  I had to peel away the lies one by one.  When I told her how horrible America was in one of the main metrics that measures health care (America is 38th in the world in infant mortality) she practically had an aneurism trying to compute it.  And then out of nowhere she starts ranting about how black people have a lot of babies and they use drugs…anyway as far as I was concerned the conversation was over there because she went over the cliff and wasn’t coming back.

    The Raptors are less a team in the NBA and more the league’s international mascot.  

    • Nilanka15

      Had to love the “USA! USA! chants…..”  😐

    • Maniacal

      absurd free throw differential – is a result of garbage officiating, maybe even just a garbage league.

      This league is all about showtime baby, and the rules get bent at the right time to maximize profit…sorry, but it sure sounds like the WWF to me.

      I have been a loyal Raptors fan from day 1, and these blatant missed calls are driving off the edge!

      Sorry – You want real basketball you have to watch the International game, where a foul is a foul is a FOUL. No matter who commits it! No matter who draws it…

      sorry for my rant guys… but i was near tears again watching my team get ripped off.

      • ghost

        Dude, I suggest you get some counselling…seriously!

  • Daniel

    I remember reading in September in a Toronto newspaper that “inside sources” in the organization said we have a chance at play-offs if we “beat the teams we are supposed to beat”. I said to myself the organization can’t be so delusional to think there is one team in NBA that we should beat a priori.We have been one of the worst teams in NBA for the last 3 seasons. Then the official season previews started coming in and all of them, without exception, mentioned that we are “deeper and more talented than last year”. OK, I said, let’s review what happened this off-season: a PER 18 career back-up PG has been replaced by another 18 PER career back-up PG, a 14 PER and above-average defender SF has been replaced by a 11 PER average defender SF, and 2 rookies will be part of the rotation and rookies don’t contribute much the first 2 years. I felt like reality has been turned upside down and dreams became the expected reality.
    Lo and behold, after 11 games, we have 1 win out of 6 games with Lowry on the floor, Fields is out indefinitely after having negative PER, Jonas looks promising and Ross looks lost. There is another important fact though: despite our terrible GM, terrible roster and terrible media, the ACC is full or almost full at every game. In other words, there is little hope for the future. The Raptors are in an identical situation with the Maple Leafs: the consumers don’t demand performance therefore the ownership doesn’t encourage it and hopes it will just fall into one. As long as this city will accept mediocrity nothing will change.

    • Gman

      What would you have done in the off season?  And try to keep it in the realm of the real

      • Dan

         I would trade an Amir or Ed or even not signed a Quincy Acey. Bring in some more vets. Vets that know how to play. Not vets that are just old and happen to be canadian. Bring in some toughness. Ditch Ed or Amir and sign Kenyon Martin. The guy plays really tough. Is a great post defender and team defender. He will put guys on the floor. Ed and Amir are the same guy. Amir is an 8 year vet and still looks lost. They need savy vets not just older duplicates of what they have. Andrea and Jose are the vet guys too yet neither have had much success in the nba. Rasho was a vet that knew spacing and how to play to his strengths. Maglore was a big guy who got by on his physicality and not actual skills.  It’s the reason you saw his skill digress big time after he hit 28. When he could no longer just over power people. Amir and ed to are the same type of guys. Acey will be the same. Parker and Garbajosa were vets who knew the game. Raps have nobody like that right know. Anderson is the closest. They need more.

        • Dan

           look back when the Raps had the most success. Lots of veterans with young guys sprinkled in. Vince was surrounded  by vets. Oakly, kevin willis Dee brown Mugsy Bogues. Even the third point guard this year is John Lucas. He has struggled to stay in the nba over the years because he is an undersized two. Either sign a young guy to develop or an older guy who can play small minutes and keep everything steady. You just let Bayless go to sign a less talented version of him. Chicago easily upgraded with Nate. Same type of guard but has had more success doing it in the nba.

          • voy

            so do you think the raps success then was mostly because of vince and tmac or because of guys like oakly, willis, dee brown and bogues?

            you cant possibly think kl is a less talented version of bayless or nate robinson.  bayless can be an ok guy in the right environment but nate robinson?!?!?

            • Dan

               Not Lowry. I like Lowry. John Lucas is the less talent version of Bayless. Both are undersized twos forced to be pg’s

              • Dan

                 Nate Robinson is another undersized two guard forced to be a pg. He has had more success then Lucas. Nate would never even be considered on this team because they are trying to have a team full of likable nice guys.  Look at nates stats this year compared to lucas last year.

        • voy

          so your example of the type of vets we should bring in are kenyon martin and a rasho type player?!?!

          I love how hyped rasho is cuz he played on a great team. rasho would be entirely and completely useless on this and most teams.  completely.

          and what do you think is going to happen by dumping ed and bringing in kmart?  how much upside are you going to get, if anything at all in the near term?  and longer term you are down a young player when kenyon hangs ’em up after a year or 2.  zero steps forward. one step back when he reitres, or blows out a knee, or poisons the other young players on the team.

          • Dan

             They made the playoffs the two years Rasho was on the team and not past his prime yet. Vince and tracy were the stars of the team but they had vets around them. I’m not saying dump all young guys for vets. Choose between Ed or amir since they are similar and close in age. bring in a few vets to help win ow since the goal seems to be playoffs. Look at the knicks right now with al the vet players. Unless your young players have the talent of the Thunder you need vets to balance out the roster. This team needs guys who play position defense. Not guys who just try to block every shot.

            • Dan

               The Raps never make the playoff without Vince or Bosh those are your best players. The years they made it they had good veterans that knew their roles and played the right way.

      • Daniel

        Number 1 priority for me was signing of an SF, either through free-agency (AK47) or trade (AI). Everything should have been  made available: draft pick, players, whatever. Number 2 was bringing a good C for 2-3 years deal until Jonas will take over. The other pieces will have fall into place based on number 1 and 2. I would have considered trading Derozan for an SG like Ronnie Brewer or even Korver. We needed shooting in the worst way. I would have done the opposite of what Colangelo did: going after Nash, then Lowry, tying-up the cap space in Fields, getting rid of Bayless and Johnson for nothing. We needed to consolidate our mediocre glut at PF with an above-average wing and C.
        My position though is that I don’t like pretending I am GM: everyone has a job to do and we can evaluate its merits based on the facts at the moment and the outcome in time. It was an easy evaluation for me considering the off-season a disaster the moment it happened because there was no fulfillment of need or quality: our first need was not upgrading the PG position and a quality SF is not a guy with a PER of 11 the previous season. 

        • voy

          dd for korver?!?!?

          what is going on here today?

          • Dan

             DD has been good this year so far. I hope he keeps improving. If you look at the stats outside just points. The past two years he was not good. He put up points because someone had too. Andrea is the same way. Both can be good effective players. But if they are your number one and number two guys you will keep having the record the Raptors have had the past few years and so far this year. they have been They tied for 7th worse team out 30 last year. Raptors have 3 wins so fa this year. I think all the fans are overvaluing the players on this team a bit too much. If they were as good as we all like to think they are the raptors would be winning. This is the team we all watch and love so we hold out hope that the players are better then they are because the gm doesn’t seem to be doing anything to change it. Demar has been way better this year and lets say he is the best player on this team this is still a 3 and 9 team so how good is he. All andrea haters say on any other team andrea would be a bench player. The same can be said for derozan. All nba players have talent. Alot of the guys considered bums put up good stats when given the minutes and shot attempts

    • The Truth

       I dunno what your garbage about “inside sources” is. Colangelo came out and said it in a public press conference.

    • Nilanka15

      “As long as this city will accept mediocrity nothing will change.”

      I wholeheartedly agree.

  • Daniel

    One more thing: I love how the refs swallowed their whistles this year. The NBA became unbearable watching the parade of bad or mediocre players getting bailed out by easy fouls (Magette, Ellis, all the “New Age” PG’s). The Centre position is almost extinct in a big men game because of the stupid “offense only” mentality implemented by NBA. I hope this refereeing style will continue and it’s not just a fad. If this continues, the players will have to become skilled again at the actual fundamentals: passing, shooting, dribbling. It will be bad for a player like Derozan however it may be very good for Terrence Ross. 

    • Gman

      I would be okay with this as long as their is parity and a reasonable level of fairness.  As it’s currently constituted, only certain players are being penalized, or perhaps unpenalized is the better way to put it.

      • Maniacal

        totally agree – makes want to puke watching NBA or WWF…how many more freaking times will i have to listed to “He just hasn’t earned that call yet….” before i stop watching? i dunno – is it me? am i over-reacting?

        • Crazy

          Totally agree, never thought that calls should be “earned”… it’s like getting a promotion based on “seniority” lol

        • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

          The NBA is scripted reality tv……………………..refs call and don’t call what they see fit under Stern’s directives….

          The NBA is a business firstmost not a sport they need storylines and the like in order to ‘spike their punch’ to fans/viewers/followers so to say..

          Tim Donaghy…..lives on…

          • Well this is a Raps-Bobcats game, nobody is betting on this one

    • The Rub

      I agree.  Especially at the end of the game.  What happened to Bargnani does not warrant a trip to the line on the final shot of a 1 point game.

      Unless it’s blatant and truly hinders the shot (not just touches the wrist after the fact) it shouldn’t be called.  Games should not be decided with a guy standing at the free throw line.

      • j bean

        It looked like you never saw the replay. He was hit on the wrist area while releasing the ball. It caused the ball to land four feet before the hoop. I may not be a big Bargs supporter but he doesn’t miss that badly without being fouled. You are saying the game should be decided by the ref’s decision whether or not to make an obvious call. It should be decided by the players playing in a league where integrity of the officiating has a priority.

      • What do you mean? If its a foul, its a foul. How often do you see a 7 footer shot an air ball from there. OK, next time Kobe shots a game winning shot, the defender should punch him in gut and it shouldn’t be decided at the FT line right?

    • So your saying Derozan isn’t skilled in any of those facets and hasn’t improved at all? Like seriously, the guy has been attacking the basket with his improved dribbling skills and post game, he just hasn’t gotten the call. But then you mention guys like Maggette, who you think are better than him just because they are getting to the line.

  • Ppellico

    Blake Murphy….

    um, so how is that bench you predicted would be in the Raps favor?
    Just askin, cause I again saw a whole different game.

    Just love the new look of the Raps!!!!
    This faster, sleeker run n gun is awesome!!!!

    When the only true star Jonas gets weary from play or is in foul trouble, all we gotta do is put in fast long shooting Amir!
    Oh, ya..forgot…he didn’t play last night!
    However… soon we will get a good game from him and all the damn Amir love will spring forth once again.
    To forget and forgive…that is the Rap Fan motto.

    • Dan

      They need to play Grey more off the becnh. He is good around the basket and understands where to be on the floor. Takes up a lot of space in the paint. He gets by on knowing where he should be and setting good screens. Amir and Ed both get by on athletics. Whoever seems to get it more on a night gets more minutes. Neither will ever be much more then they are now. I will take Greys post game over Amirs jump shot any day.

      • voy

        the problem is, you know what the upside is with grey.  we dont know what the upside is with ed.  grey may be a serviceable player but we know he’ll never be a 20 minute guy on a good team.  I’m not sure we know that yet with ed.

        • Dan

           That is true. But that’s my point. Bryan and the fans all want playoffs this year but play a lot of guys that you don’t know what to expect every night. Amir and Ed have some great nights and they will occur a lot more then grey’s odd good night. He won’t do a lot to hurt the team either. You won’t see him take a 3 like amir or try to jump over three defenders like Davis. If you want to win you need some more vets. You want to keep trying to see what the young guys can do don’t trade the draft pick this year because you will be a lottery team.

      • Ppellico

        nobody wants to play Gray more than 10 minutes…and even then if reguired.
        But to sit him wen he has saved your team inside many, many times over the last season only to see Amir do stupid shit over and over is insane.
        Watching Amir get applauded for outside shooting makes me sick.
        What a stupid fan enjoys seeing this.
        The oppositions cracks up when they see him make one.

        The issue I have is this team is turning one dimentional.
        Fast or nothing.
        No mre slower. stop the inside bleeding.
        Its now run n gun or nothin.

        What a stupid team has Casey put together this season.

        Very sick n tired of watching this plan over and over

      • BrainColangelo

        What post game?  Post defence?  Grey is not a blackhole on offence, he’s a manhole.  If you know he’s there you can avoid problems but if you don’t it’s a 20-foot drop into sewage and shit.

      • Are you on crack? Gray’s post game? Lol what are you talking about? He is only there when we are in desperate need. The guy can’t finish a layup on the move if his life depended on it. You would rather have that fat fuck then younger athletic bigs with more potential?

  • Ppellico

    what a one dimentional team.
    Its out sleek fast run n gun or nothing.
    No…we don’t need that stupid slow hard defense!
    We have fast.
    If another team goes fast, hell..we go faster, right?

    Just keep your big 7 foot center on the bench this season. Don’t need him Look at how hard we play defense! Look at how we block the inside!
    We don’t need no stinking big slow defensive center! We got FAST!!!

    • Vvdvd

       stop using drugs

      • Ppellico


        very well written.


        • Ppellico

          and buy a goddamned vowel

  • Nilanka15

    Glass if half full comment:  At least we’re not Wizards fans…

    • unknown guest

      don’t jinx us ><

  • Halifax Raps Fan

    You can make all th eexcuses you want, the refs don’t, and haven’t since Bosh left, treat the Raptors with any sense of fairness or eqaulity.  wE HAVE ENOUGH TROUBLE BEATING TEAMS WITHOUT HAVING TO BATTLE THE REFS TOO!  Sorry for the caps, but my keyboard is going wonky!

  • Jimi Cliff

    “However, when the other team identifies you as a weak defensive link by
    having Byron Mullens isolate you, it`s an embarassing problem.”

    Clearly you haven’t been watching any Bobcats this season (and who does watch them? I do, because I have two of them on my fantasy team). Mullens is a key part of their offense. They routinely run plays and isos for him, and he’s actually been surprisingly dominant at times. So, that critique against Bargs isn’t valid. Critiquing Barg’s two rebounds? Valid.

    Leo’s halftime interview with Bargs was fantastic, because you know the whole time he was thinking “my producers say I’m only allowed to ask nice questions, but the only question on my mind right now is now in the hell can you not be making simple box-outs, you’ve only been playing basketball your whole life.”

    Also, seeing Jonas teabag Mullens after that dunk almost made up for the loss.

  • Jimi Cliff

    And I wholeheartedly agree with all of Lowry bashing going on right now. The dude grew up modeling his game after Iverson, and now we’re watching what kind of basketball player that gets you. His ball hogging is going to become a major problem. 

    • Destro


  • OvertheWall

    Thank god the Raptors lost, because they should have regardless of referee calls.  If they won, complacency sets back in again with the fan base.  We NEED them to lose so that this stupid organization can come up with some sort of accountability here for horrible roster decisions. 
    And fans, please stop going to the fking Raptors and Leafs games — boycott them and go to Blue Jay games instead.  Stop feeding this MLSE crap.

    • The Truth

       As if the Jays aren’t shit as well, just because they re-arranged the deck chairs on the Titanic last week.

      If you want to support a team from Toronto that is actually going to win something go to the Grey Cup on Sunday or get season tickets to the Rock :P.

      • j bean

        The Jays are looking good too!

  • Slap Dog Hoops

    The loss was certainly frustrating, but there will be games like these and usually what does not kill you makes you stronger, right?  Raps will only get better sfter this tough loss.  

    • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

      Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit (Clay Davis voice)

      • Matt52

         lol – The Wire is probably my fav show ever.

        • ghost

          Mine too!

      • KD


  • Statement

    I haven’t watched a full game after the season opener.  You know what, I’m a much happier person for it.

    Until the usual suspects go, this team will always suck. 

    I said it before but I’ll re-iterate. Going forward, I will always assume that the Raptors suck ass until they prove otherwise.

  • Dan

    Hypothetical. Bryan some how tricks the grizz into trading Rudy gay for Jose and Ed and a couple of draft picks. Now Rudy gay is the clear best player. Lowry second and depending on who you are a fan of Andrea and Demar next. Followed by Jonas. I think the raptors average about 83 shots per game. Rudy gay 17. demar 15  Andrea 16 Lowry 12 jonas 6. That’s 66 shots. The bench seems to average about 20 to 25 shots a night. Now your going to have to take away shots from the starting lineup. Lowry and Jonas both have the lowest amount of shots and best fg%. Jonas as he gets better will want more shots and need more. Again take more away from other people and the natural selection would be andrea and demar since gay is your best player. Now demars 19 and andreas 17 points are down to about 14 and 12 per game. But the team is winning. Would anyone be against this scenario. Yet now other teams would blankly look at the stats of a demar and consider him just another average wing player. Yet when I compare him to ronnie brewer who is similar but plays behind more talent like demar would in this scenario everyone tears my head off. Demar is improving this year and is playing the best basketball he ever has. But he is still just an average player playing a lebron type roll on this team

    Demar is better then ronnie brewer. If you were to reverse there rolls the stats would not be much different that is all i’m saying. Nick young as a starter averaged 17 points as a starter and the wizards sucked. He now comes off the bench for winning team averaging only 10 points. Destro you need to be more open minded.

    • Why the fuck would the Grizz do that when they are near the top of the Western Conference.

  • Bargnanisucks

    Look at all you idiots bashing lowry, he kept us in the game the WHOLE time. He’s selfish, bullshit.. he knows he made a mistake by even coming here, playing on a team full of scrubs. Go look at calderon, every play the last two games… holiday blows by him, kemba walker blows by him. How many times do we have to watch this pylon? its embarrassing. He really doesn’t do anything well, he needs to go. Overpaid one way player

  • JHP

    I checked the schedule and it’s rough !!  

  • Canadian Paul

    Raptors’ problem is defensive. We don’t protect the rim really well (10th worst team), we’re really bad at protecting the 3-pt line (2nd worst team), and we send people to the free-throw line like it’s going out of style (worst team).

    That’s not a recipe for winning, no matter that last shot against the Cats.

  • JHP

    I think the adult thing to do is trade Jose to a contender.  He’s paid his dues and to have to endure this year after year is just a shame.  Plus his value will never be any higher and in another month or so some contender will pay a premium for him.  Of course throw in BC as well.

  • Disheartened

    Well, at least NBA acknowledges the shit officiating last night:


  • Gregast

    Wouldn’t it be something if the NBA players were responsible for calling their own fouls like the professional golfers do. In the case of the PGA Tour players, their honesty typically costs them (personally) tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars.If the NBA invoked this “new” rule the players would be given the chance to call his foul and then if he chooses not to, any time within 24 hours conclusive pictures, testimony or video of the foul would result in the player personally donating, say, $100,000 to the approved charity of their choice.Not calling a foul like Kidd-Gilchrist’s on Bargnani would not affect the game results but would take a significant amount of money from the player’s pocket book not to mention the humiliation of being publicly proven to be a callow liar and cheat.

    Repeat cheats might be suspended for a game or two to penalize the team. Or the fine for being caught on tape might escalate until a player is playing for free until he shapes up and plays fair.

    Why not? Too costly? I kind of like the idea of a $10 Million / year player being required to given back a few million annually for being a cheater and general all around dip stick.

  • rc

    remember when Turkoglu drove in the final seconds and got the call to sink 2 game winning free throws against the Lakers a few years ago?  I don’t know what my point is.

    • czendvet

      Everyone needs to remember that its the referees job to make calls based on the immediate action and not based on reputation or any other reason.
      The game needs to play out righteously and these Donahue clones need to be weeded out of the league. 

      Hopefully the new Commissioner will clean house because to say that “the Raptors need to bide their time till they garner the respect of the league is bullshit”.A foul is a foul no matter who commits it and what the outcome means!