This week on The Doctor is In with Phdsteve, I know you are dying for some ball talk and so we go loooong (47 minutes long)!   I have called in the boys to talk ball and we have a roundtable discussion that talks about all the action in NBA while continually tying it back to the Raptors!  Joined by my brother Mike (who knows college basketball), Greg Mason (the brain from the south), and The Fifth Quarter Blog’s Blair Miller, we discuss:

  • OKC with and without Westbrook
  • Did Sam Presti trade the wrong guy last year?
  • Jonas for Harden- would you have made that deal (assuming Simmons was right in that the trade was offered)?
  • The OKC model for building a franchise or…what about Indiana as a possible model for Toronto to follow?
  • Are the Raps and their isolation offense more like the Knicks than we want to believe?
  • Melo gets an MVP vote? Really?
  • Who is coming out of the West
  • Can anyone beat Miami
  • Steph Curry….wow!
  • and thoughts on the next steps for the Raptors.

Note: This was recorded on Tuesday.

Don’t forget to visit Blair’s site, The Fifth Quarter Blog, and follow him on Twitter – @TFQuarter

Grab the iTunes feed or the plain old feed. You can also download the file (47:04, 37 MB). Or just listen below:

  • mountio

    Nice pod. A couple of things
    – Blair hit on it .. but the supposed deal for JV would not have been Harden straight up for JV. Likely would have been something like JV, JC, TR + a pick .. or at least three of the previous four (if you compare to what they got in Martin, Lamb, Raps pick and other 1st rounder). This is a MUCH tougher call than JV straight up
    – As to whether the OKC model is a myth .. I think you have to look no further than the above trade. Almost zero GMs in the league make that deal. You have to have massive balls to do it – the safe thing is to just keep Harden for the year and see what happens. Problem there, is you dont get value back (see: Lebron and Bosh). Do we then call Presti lucky if one of Lamb, Raps pick or Dallas pick work out? Im not saying I totally love the deal .. but you cant call him lucky if this one works out. I would make a similar comment (although not as drastic) on how they totally gutted their roster and collected draft picks on the way to drafting KD, RW, SI and JH.
    – As an aside, its interesting to see how little PT ED is getting in Memphis. Obviously they have a GREAT starting 4/5 .. but I would have though he would get more time as a backup forward. He seems to be 4th or 5th of the depth chart of big men in Memphis. Perhaps a sign of just how bad the Raps are as compared to these good playoff teams when Ed can barely get any PT?

  • http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

    Nice podcast, yet again. Thanks for the mention, and just on the point I was going to comment on. I’d actually argue that there is NO followable model. Just as the OKC model is dependant on lucking into Durant and drafting Westbrook and Ibaka, the Pacers model is dependant on finding what appears to be an elite player, in Paul George, at the 10th spot, which is nearly impossible nowadays. And finding an All Star center at the 17th spot is not something you can plan, either.

    As for following the Knicks model, I hope not. Gay isn’t Carmelo, and neither one is someone I’d want to build a team around.

    • K.J.P

      Just to see what you like, Tim. What type of player would you like to see a team be built around? And how many teams in the NBA have a player like that on their team?

      • http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

        If you want to be a true contender in the NBA, you should have, as your main guy, a hard working, an elite player who is great in at least two areas, isn’t a liability on defense, and makes those around him better. A quick count, I figure there are probably between 12 and 17 players in the league that fit that description, at various stages of their career (from Kyrie Irving to Paul Pierce). Gay would most definitely not fit my description.

  • Hakeem’s ghost

    I’m sorry this may be off topic, but I’m trying to post this observation somewhere on the site. Has anyone else noticed how many ex raptors are playing key roles in the playoffs? Lets go over a few.

    Humphrey and Evans. Yes both are flawed, but it says something that they have clears defined roles.

    Belinelli. How on earth can a guy who is so bad defensively that we have to get rid of him, be playing such great d for Tom thibedeau?

    Jarret jack. Nuffield said.

    Jerry’s Baylis. Again, a key player who is playing key minutes.

    My obs is that quite simply these are system players who are flourishing in a (wait for it) system! For so many years we’ve used a variety of players Ina. Variety of roles in a variety of ineffective half assed systems. In fact the only consistent factor through all this has Ben the gm, who has changed his direction, agenda and style of players over and over again other than sticking with a draft pick who only he has had faith in. Now again we’ve got a set of players who are flawed in some way, and if we don’t find a way to make them accountable and assume the roles we need them to do, they’ll be gone and well be back to this perpetual starting over agin mode.

    Again, sorry for the off topic rant, but I’d love to hear feedback in regards to this issue.

    • http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

      Just a quick comment. I’m not sure why you called Belinelli a bad defensive player. In Toronto, he was actually pretty good. Inconsistent, yes, but overall he was actually a pretty good defensive player. I find a lot of fans paint a lot of Raptors as poor defensive players because they play on poor defensive teams. A lot of Raptor fans called Bosh a bad defensive player, when I wasn’t. He wasn’t great, but decent.

      • Hakeem’s ghost

        Totally my point. He wasn’t bad, but may have had bad habits, and didn’t fit. Meanwhile someone else who is far better than us, recognizes the abilities, puts him in a position to be a positive p,layer, and he thrives. We however sign someone, sell some jerseys and move on.

        • http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

          I actually was sorry to see him go. I felt he had the ability to be a good player, in the right circumstances. I still question his commitment, but he’s definitely proven he was the better player out of the Belinelli, Julian Wright. Yet another trade Colangelo didn’t win.

    • mountio

      Interesting .. especially all the players we thought were bad. Yet, the one player we thought was great (or at least up and coming) in Ed D is barely seeing any playing time.
      However, totally agree on the system. Casey is lost

      • http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

        Davis is caught behind two All Star big men, so is obviously finding minutes tough find, right now. But this trade was made for the future. Randolph is 31 and already showed signs of decline, this year. Plus, it gives Memphis insurance in case they decide they need to move Randolph’s contract.

        • Amigo

          Yes, 3 All stars, you forgot Darrell Arthur….

          • mountio

            Ya – my point exactly. Im not suggesting Ed D should be starting over that frontcourt by any stretch of the imagination .. but a DNP in favour of Darrell Arthur and Austin Daye? Followed by 3 mins in game 2? Its pretty intriguing …

    • DumbassKicker

      These ridiculous kind of posts, from yet another new screen name, likely from someone that uses many, would be hilarious if they served some other purpose besides feeding petty and misguided sour grapes to the “bad management” whinery.

      First, this general point about players doing well, or even flourishing, somewhere else after being traded or let go, can be said about any team in the league. In some cases, players fit better on a different team and playing for a different coach, but more often than not, a huge part of it is players finally growing up and “getting it”. Life in the NBA, just like life in general, isn’t linear. There’s no telling what would have become of a player had he been kept.

      As for some of the examples given:

      – Hump playing a key role? hahahahaha The dude had his big pay day season last year and is being paid $12M, After given the start for the first 18 games of the year, ended up averaging a whopping 18 minutes, with 7 DNP-Coach’s Decision, and averaged a prominent 12 minutes in the playoffs. A totally one dimensional guy like Reggie not only bumped him from the starting line-up, but averaged 2.5 times the playoff minutes, in a first round losing cause. Note that Utah, with Jerry Sloan leading the way, gave him up for freaking Araujo, and Dallas, with Carlisle leading the way, gave him up for freaking Eduardo Najera. The Raps aren’t the only team that “missed the boat”, hahahahaha.

      – Reggie? Great rebounder, otherwise a shit basketball player, whose “key role” produced a first round exit against a depleted team. Hell, both he and Hump were so “key” that they got killed by Boozer in their first round exit. But I guess Seattle, Denver, Philly, and LAC missed the boat on him too. Shucks!

      -Bellinelli- There’s no telling if he can sustain what he’s doing in the playoffs, but he’s surely playing very good ball. Is he a classic case of finally getting it? Chicago hopes so, but the Raps aren’t the first team (GSW), nor the last team (NO) to send him packing. Maybe he’s a case like Chauncey Billups who didn’t quite get it together until his 5th team in Detroit. The thing is, you can’t cry over shit like that, because for every player who you can later say “gee, maybe we should have kept”, there’s 10 that never get it.

      -Bayless- Another guy that is playing very well for his team in the playoffs, but he sure wasn’t “getting it” here last year, when he had plenty of opportunity to show his stuff. Maybe he’s finally getting it too, for his 4th team, but where would he have fit in here? The Raps had Jose under contract, and had traded for Lowry. Bayless was grumpy with his role last year, so how would he have been as 3rd string here?

      • hakeem’s ghost

        um sunshine, rather than being insulting, can we not talk? True, players move around, but isn’t in interesting that some of the things that we have been lacking for what seems so long other teams have been able to extract from players that we had? Tru, Hump is Hump, but last year he wasn’t as useless and he found his way into the doghouse under johnson then pj. And yes some of it is players growing up, but i ask you under the current regime, which players from other teams have improved once they got here? Amir Johnson……

        and?

        Lowry was seen as a up and coming pg. Many sites (ESPN, CNN, The Clasical, Ball dont lie) commended us n aquiring him, an now we are wrining our hands over whether or not we should have got rid of jose at all.

        I’d love to know what other people think, and pookie pie if some people, like me, pop in occasionally to make comments that doesn’t render their ideas boneheaded. For all your efforts to look like a genious (genius?) you really only took apart my hump assertion, and in fact butressed it by saying he was replaced by reggie who, surprise! Played in Toronto last year.

        Arse, Blake etc., can we look at this thread with some insight?

        • hakeems ghost

          Ooopsie, one last thing, wouldn’t it be nice if we could be the team where players finally ‘get it’?

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