Rapcast #156: Colangelo Firing, GM Choices, Playoffs

by Steve Gennaro May 22, 2013

This week on the Dr. Is in with phdsteve, my opposite, Tim W. drops by and get this…we actually agree on something! We give our immediate reactions to firing/promotion of Bryan Colangelo, talk briefly about who gets the job as the next GM of the Raps, and then from there it gets kind of silly. We talk about who really made the decision in the Melo to NYK trade and why the Oden over
Durant draft choice was so controversial. Don’t worry, we tie it all back to the Raps and the Colangelo press conference and finish with some cold, hard facts about the Raptors that not even ping pong balls can solve.

Grab the iTunes feed or the plain old feed. You can also download the file (40:28, 37 MB). Or just listen below:

SwishCheeze

I say it’s all smoke n mirrors if u ask me. What we’ve heard in the last week is that the new GM would full control. Then we heard that he would report direct to TL. Then we heard that TL was keeping BC on for his advice! That sounds to me like BC is still running the show. With all the talk about rebranding and the 2016 all-star game, this just sounds like BC 2.0 to me. I think the new GM is gonna be a rookie. Basically a puppet who will be the face in press conferences because Toronto wouldn’t be open to anything BC stands behind.
- SR
  
  It sounds to me like Leiweke had to compromise, because Larry Tanenbaum really, really likes Colangelo and wanted to keep him in the organization. Leiweke is ready to can Colangelo at the drop of a hat, and has already said as much to the media. It did not take all this time to decide to give BC a new office – it took all this time to iron out a compromise between all the suits involved in the decision making at MLSE.
  - SR
    
    I’ll bet my lunch the board wanted to keep Colangelo and Leiweke didn’t, and that this arrangement is what they settled on.
  - Copywryter
    
    This makes the most sense given everything we know about the franchise and its management. It is not a good sign for so, so many reasons.
raptorspoo

I think it might have been Tim that mentioned that he hopes we don’t win the lottery this year because it would put our new GM in an awkward position…. and I totally agree with that.

But, here is an interesting scenario now that we didn’t win. My belief is that Cleveland doesn’t necessarily want that pick for several reasons – including the fact that the draft is weak, they’re already young and there’s no one that really fits their plans. They desperately need a scoring forward and have cap space.

What if we were to offer Gay & cash for say Andy & 1st (+whatever it takes to make it work)? All of a sudden we give our new GM flexibility and a #1 pick. Food for thought.
- Marz
  
  Cleveland can get a much better haul for Andy + 1st than Gay.
  - raptorspoo
    
    Don’t stop there. Give me some names to back up your point…
    - mountio
      
      Aldridge, Cousins, Love (Cle might need to sprinkle in a little more for him) to name a few.
      - raptorspoo
        
        LOL… Good luck trying to get those guys.
- Hugmenot
  
  Cleveland made a trade with Memphis to help Memphis reduce its salary mass. Rudy Gay was still with with Memphis at the time and they made no play whatsoever for him.
  
  I am a Cleveland fan and my opinion is that Rudy Gay would be a mediocre fit at best. Gay cannot hit the corner three with consistency and we would have the same spacing problems they had in Memphis when Gay was there. Gay is also grossly overpaid and is not talented enough to be worth the #1 pick, let alone #1 and Andy. Personally, I’d rather have Andy than Gay given their salaries.
  
  I believe there are three players who fits well in Cleveland’s plans: Nerlens Noel, Otto Porter, and Victor Oladipo (but less so now that his combine measurements were less than anticipated). I think the following are the three most likely scenarios: (1) Cleveland keeps the #1 pick and pick Noel, (2) Cleveland trade down to #3 or #4 and take one of Porter or Oladipo, or (3) Cleveland trades the #1 pick for a star player on a friendly contract.
  
  The majority of us on RealCavsFans believe Cleveland will draft Noel. We need a starting center and it’s unlikely we’ll find someone more talented than Noel over the next couple of years.
- http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.
  
  I don’t think Cleveland would trade Varejao for Gay straight up, let alone throwing in their #1 pick. I think most teams would rather have a very good defensive big man who can rebound and score around the basket, making $18.7 million over the next two years than an inefficient scoring SF who plays inconsistent defense and makes poor decisions with the ball, making $35 million over the next two years.
  - raptorspoo
    
    Love Andy but his history is arguably worse than Eric Gordon. Not sure if any teams would trade anything significant for that – or rely on him to build around. You’re looking at teams like Miami who has nothing to give back in return, that would want to take Andy. With all of Gay’s inconsistencies, he can still score. And as silly as it might sound, there are teams willing to overlook those deficiencies and still consider him a fringe superstar.
    
    About the salary… see comment to phdsteve.
    - http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.
      
      You might be right. If the Raptors can get the first pick for Gay, then I’d be all for it. I’d prefer they bring in a third team, so they don’t have to take back Varejao who would actually help them win.
  - Kid-Canada
    
    $35 million over two years, ugh. I didn’t need a reminder. Honestly, the thing that bothers me most about his game is his inability to get others involved. We have a very stale offence that relies on isolation plays for Gay and DeRozan. I’d like to see more ball movement from our two leading scorers. With Calderon out of the picture, we really don’t have anyone who can create opportunities for others. Lowry’s game is still developing in that area; Gay’s is almost non-existent.
    - http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.
      
      Gay is great at getting others involved. Amir and Valanciunas get a lot of offensive rebounds because of him.
      - Kid-Canada
        
        “Gay is great at getting others involved.” Really? Among small forwards, he has one of the lowest Ast.%.
        
        jjdynomite
        
        Sarcasm, meet Kid-Canada.
- Copywryter
  
  I’d say Cleveland desperately needs a perimeter defender and shot blocker. They are one of the worst defensive teams in the league. I think Noel looks pretty good and I don’t think Gilbert likes the idea of trading a dollar for four quarters.
raptors phdsteve

all good points about trading Gay to Clev but what no one has mentioned is how Gay, right now fills a void but more importantly, would give Clev a HUGE contract that would expire exactly when Lebron can opt out of Miami. Clev will have a large amount of cap room this summer but I imagine they would gladly trade that cap space for cap space in 2 years, especially if they can pick up an asset along the way. A deal that sends Gay + Ross might be more along the lines of what Clev would be looking for for the #1. As for the Raps, getting the #1 pick and the cap relief of Gay would be a major plus- and it would allow them to “grow” by being in the lottery next year for Wiggins (as Tim noted on the podcast). I doubt however that the road of the team is headed anywhere other than a big push for the #8 playoff spot next year and that wont happen with the #1 pick.
- Copywryter
  
  That’s a major gamble when the 2014 draft looks to be such a strong one and any number of teams are lining up for Lebron. Gay and a healthy Irving might make them a bubble playoff team and push them down the ladder only to have Lebron go elsewhere and Gay leave for free agency.
- Hugmenot
  
  Terrence Ross is less talented than Rudy Gay and Dion Waiters; he would be a backup player in Cleveland. The jury is still out of him whether he will ever be a starter-quality player.
  
  Again, Gay cannot shoot the corner three with consistency and that’s we need from a small forward in Cleveland. Gee tried but he failed (still a good backup to have on your team).
  
  LeBron James can opt out of his contract in 2014 so what you wrote about a huge expiring contract expiring in 2 years makes no sense whatsoever. Also, Cleveland is already in a position to offer at least one max contract next Summer so getting an expiring contract to create additional cap space is not required to sign LeBron to a max contract should he decides to join the Cavs again.
- raptorspoo
  
  I know there are a lot of those bashing the Gay for #1 deal but If it were a straight up deal, I think a Gay for #1 would be great deal for Cleveland – but of course, salaries wouldn’t work just like that. I don’t think Ross would need to be added.
  
  I will list a couple other reasons why this trade would work for both teams:
  1. Clev’s biggest need is a SF that can score – find me a better SF that they can get that has experience (and still relatively young), that teams are willing to trade for #1.
  2. Clev is too young – They have too many inexperienced on rookie contracts.
  3. According to hoopshype, they have $32mil on the books for next season. Plus Gay Minus Andy would put them around $41mil. I there there’s a league minimum salary that they must reach or be penalized (just checked – yes, it is 85% of cap or $49 mil in 2012). Leaves them enough space to maybe take a run a either Howard or Bynum.
  4. For those of you bashing E.Gordon’s health history, take a look at Andy’s..
  5. #1 in a bad draft year?
  6. The Raptors would have to send cash Clev’s way so Clev would probably pay $3mil less on the salary.
  7. Rudy wouldn’t command as much $ upon resigning. And if they don’t resign then you got huge cap space for Lebron – as phdsteve mentioned.
  8.. For the Raptors, as Tim mentioned, it would help us tank for next season.
  
  If we were able to get #1, i’d honestly try and bait the teams I think would be the worst next year and swap a ‘guaranteed #1′ pick for an un-guaranteed pick next year. There are bound to be some idiot teams (like the raptors) who think they’ll be much better than they’ll actually be.
morgan c

A couple things:

1) I find it funny and also odd that Steve and Tim are doing a podcast together, since they disagree on everything and clearly don’t really like each others style at all, when it comes to the blog and opinions on the Raps in general. To that end, Tim, you really come off as not only negative (fine when it comes to Raptors), but not super prepared. You mention reading articles, never remembering where they come from, never mentioning specifics. You should listen to guys like Zahar or the RaptorBlog (or TBJ) podcasts – guys are supposed to have numbers and stuff they want to talk about in front of them before the podcast, like a journalist would. I’m not trying to sound like a jerk; I mean this honestly as constructive criticism. You are clearly a smart guy who writes well, etc., but the “I may have read something on a forum…” comment that you then use to inform a conclusion about the GM search is just poor form dude.

2) The Canadian comment was ridiculous. I find the whole “he doesn’t know Canada / Canadians / making things into Canada vs. the U.S.” angle totally hilarious, as a born and raised Canadian, who holds dual citizenship and has lived in the States for the past 10 years. Steve, I guarantee you Leinweke did not keep Colangelo because he didn’t want to offend Canadians. I mean, seriously. Give it a rest with the massive inferiority complex. It’s hackneyed. I do find it stupid that they didn’t just fire Colangelo, but these are the facts: he is not the GM, he will have ZERO role when it comes to basketball decisions, he will not be allowed to influence the GM, and he will not in any way work with the GM on a basketball / personnel level. Unless you think Leiwenke is a sociopathic liar, why even play this angle up? BC will have zero impact on basketball, and therefore any discussion about him possibly dissuading a guy from coming here is moot. It’s wasted time on an otherwise awesome and entertaining podcast from the always awesome RR. BC will be gone in a year anyway. He was undressed in public by TW, and again, will be FIRED if he tries to influence the GM.
- http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.
  
  Constructive criticism is always welcome. I do feel I need to defend myself a little bit, though.
  
  First off, this is only my second podcast, and I’m still getting comfortable doing them. Hopefully I’ll improve, or I’ll just stop doing them. To make matters worse, our Skype conversation had a delay (of a couple of seconds), which made it basically impossible to have any back and forth. I found that very difficult. Steve did his best to edit it, and thought he did very a good job, so it’s not as noticeable to listeners. I found it really difficult, especially as the conversation went on, though, which may be obvious.
  
  As for not being prepared, you’re not wrong. We had a selection of things we were going to talk about, and that was all put on the backburner in order to talk about Colangelo minutes before we recorded it. The conversation went places that neither of us anticipated, so neither of us were prepared at all in advance of what we were going to talk about.
  
  I did have a whole lot of notes on the subjects we were going to talk about, and hopefully we’ll get to that later this week.
  
  The negative comment, I don’t know. I thought I was more positive than PhDSteve was, but who knows. You’re certainly not the first to call me negative, but when you look at the situation the team is currently in, it’s hard to say that negativism is unwarranted.
  
  I do think your comment about it being odd for the two of us to do a podcast together because we disagree with each other is funny. I think we show that two people can disagree and still be respectful towards each other. How interesting would it be if we agreed with each other on everything?
  - RedEyedJedi
    
    Personally, I have enjoyed listening to you and Steve together on the podcast. Differing opinions only add to the richness of the program. There were points I thought you hit on the head while others i disagreed with but that’s the point of this sort of media. Anyways I guess this is really just a “keep up the good work, don’t let negative posts bring you down, thanks for contributing” post.
    - http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.
      
      Thanks. Much appreciated.
Dr Scooby

Ball
Jamshid

The Quality of RR is going down the toilet when Tim W. is included in the podcasts !!!

How can a guy who has been almost wrong in every predictions that he had made the last few years be involved with the site now is beyond me

A guy who is quick to delete the comments that criticize him and …
lets see how long it would take him before he deletes this comment
- Nilanka15
  
  RR should only employ volunteers with accurate fortune telling abilities?
- Thierry
  
  Not only he is bad, but this podcast was very difficult to listen with the monotonous voice and all the uuuumm, yeaaaah, mmmmmmmm
RedEyedJedi

I really hope they are able to make that second step and hire a solid GM. Also, I really don’t like B.C. as a GM but I think we have to agree he has had success as a President. I tend to view this move as positive since B.C. can now really tune in and focus on building the Raptors brand across Canada as well as in T.O. while allowing the GM to do the same for basketball operations. To be honest I’m somewhat surprised this isn’t the normal split that occurs in most organizations.

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