Raptors 87, Timberwolves 103 – Box

There’s not much to analyze in this game and even if there was, I don’t want to because of the big elephant in the room, who I will get to very shortly, worry not. The Raptors had one of their worst games of the season. Jay Triano’s coaching got exposed for the second night in a row. The Timberwolves actually didn’t shoot that well, which is the norm for them, but the Raptors were awful offensively. DeRozan never got on track, but took just 11 shots, many of which were later in the game, but showed some good defense to make up for it. Sonny Weems seems to have a negative impact on this team since his return, playing token defense and jacking up questionable shots. He is hurting DeMar’s development. It’s time to pick one of the two and stick with it, and we all know who that should be now. There have been a few games like this where the team looked like it had checked out by the 3rd quarter.

Sam Mitchell got fired for far less than this. Actually, Mitchell didn’t get fired because of the performance of the on-court product. He got canned because he didn’t give certain players minutes if they didn’t deserve it. If they didn’t D up with at least close to 100% effort. Kevin Love would play on Sam Mitchell’s team, a lot. He would ride the shit out of Amir Johnson and Ed Davis, and Julian Wright would actually have a consistent role. Jack Armstrong, who kind of lost it last night which was extremely refreshing to see, better be a little careful being too critical about this team and his players, or he might suffer Sam Mitchell’s fate. You think I’m joking? He’s even taking not-so-veiled shots at Bargnani.

Ten million dollars. That’s about how much gets deposited into Bargnani’s coffers every year. If you made around fifty grand, it would take you 200 years to make that same kind of money. How hard do you work? How hard would you work if you made that kind of money and thousands of people like me and you who are die-hard fans counted on you to entertain us with a winning product? When people drive 10+ hours to Minnesota to eagerly watch you hopefully win against an equally bad team? You shoot 5 – 24, and even with the sheer guilt of being useless offensively, couldn’t grab more than 3 rebounds? Are you kidding me?

3 rebounds. It’s like we’ve all become immune to the fact our starting center just grabbed 3 damn rebounds. If Al Horford, Andrew Bogut, Joakim Noah, or any other center grabs 3, you’re googling that to see how that could possibly happen. Not on the Toronto Raptors. That’s ok Andrea, and the 5 – 24 is ok too, you were just “a little out of sync offensively” like Jay Triano said after the game. The fact that him and Sonny Weems took so many shots that DeMar DeRozan’s first shot attempt was at the first quarter buzzer, that’s ok too. We know you’re not good at anything else Andrea, so get your 20 points, because we know that everyone will forget about the 5 – 24 eventually and just see that nice 20 beside your scoring average. You’re down by 26 in the fourth, and Martell Webster starts his drive from the top of the key, Bargnani just waiting there, and Webster just flushes it hard as the crowd goes wild. Bargnani just braces himself so that Webster’s legs don’t hit him the face. Nice. That’s what the Toronto Raptors are all about now, not Charles Oakley, Antonio Davis, shit even Kevin Willis. They were joking on NBA TV after the game about that play. How the “red sea parted” as Webster came through. Even Jack Armstrong felt that Webster should have been out on his ass. Jack even said that maybe, paraphrasing now, “you tell the guy you gotta get 10 and 10 and if you don’t, then you sit on the bench”. Hahaha, that’s funny Jack, good one.

I’m sick and tired of this farcical situation about this “unique” talent and his GM and asisstant GM of the same nationality. Yeah, I said it. There’s a strong element of favouritism because they are all Italian. Maurizio probably knows his family well and they talk all the time and all this stuff is more important that the fact that this team will be a laughingstock with him as a starting center. And not just a bad center, one that’s spoiled and lazy. I used to brush aside this notion of favoritism but now it’s unavoidable. Or maybe BC and Maurizio think that this is the kind of player that will help you become a winner, which is even more discouraging if it’s true. It’s making me less and less of a fan, and I never thought that would happen. I’ve always been the eternal optimist, Arse was usually the one who brought things down to a more sobering reality. I was really excited about Andrea Bargnani at one point. Now his presence is all that is bad about the Toronto Raptor organization right now. Being bad is one thing, but lack of equity is just a turn off. And now I’m becoming a bitter fan that hates the way Colangelo operates and am losing my interest in the team because of that. Maybe that’s what it will take to end this Il Mago experiment, when the fans stay away. Or maybe a signed petition of some sort. Not even joking.

Watch Bargnani in the post-game presser. Never blames himself and shrugs half the time at reporters like nothing happened. No emotion. Caliper test FTW. 10 million dollars. 200 years. Think about it. Kevin Love probably does. I’ll end this tirade with a quote from the one and only Mr. Love about rebounding and why he’s so good at it:

He taught me about what he learned from playing with and against those guys — positioning and footwork — but more than anything, he taught me there’s a mindset to rebounding: It’s about assuming every shot is going to miss and how Bill Russell always used to say 80 percent of rebounds are below the rim and knowing I could have a lot of success doing it.

I didn’t have to be the most athletic guy. I didn’t have to be the tallest guy or have the longest arms. I just had to have brute strength and the tenacity to go after every single one.

I’m 6-9 without shoes on the best day of my life.

The will to rebound — to get every single one there is — isn’t something you can measure.

It’s something I feel either you have [it] or you don’t.

I think my dad focused on rebounding with me so I’d be more than just a scorer or passer. So if other things weren’t going right, I could always rebound. That was something that could still make me special. Even if I ever ended up on a team where I wasn’t getting the ball too much, I’d always know I could get four to six points just off offensive rebounds.

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175 Responses to “5 – 24, 3 rebounds”

  1. barenakedman

    Wow! You know when someone is able to put into words something that has been on your mind but you haven’t been able to put it into words yourself? Thanks A-Dub.

    • dunkinderozan

      u ignorant F*CK just because Andrea is not GOD doesn’t mean ADUB is smart.. ASK Amare what he though when Bargnani dropped 43 at MSG don’t listen to some smart ass who has nothing better to disect about toronto ineffeciencies than the one player who is becoming a proven legitament talent on our team

      • Solomon Simunovic

        The Raptors will NEVER become anything legitimate as long as Bargnani is a starting player. If you’re a starting center you cannot just score points. Your first priority is to box out and grab rebounds and anchor the interior defense. Bargnani does none of this.

        Also, who cares if he scored 43 at MSG, Charlie V scored 48 one time, how’s he doing now?

        The perfect role for Bargnani would be 6th man, going against a second units bigs.

      • KJ-B

        yOU still talking bout MSG???!!!!?????????? I just wish, you’re NBA GM in New Orleans or Utah, and will trade us Calderon/#7 for either Deron Williams or Chris Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • Dr Bball

          Bargs is not a centre even though the raptors play him there. put the guy at the PF position and sign-trade for or draft a true big man to play along side him. the guy gets torched for not grabbing boards…it isnt his strong suit, but he averages over 21 ppg, which only one other centre is doing right now Dhow…the man child!

          • Nilanka15

            PF’s still need to rebound and help on defense. Bargs will be just as useless at the 4. Opposing PFs are quicker and have longer range than centres do, which would just expose Bargnani’s inabilities more so.

    • KJ-B

      +1 BIL…Best Article Of the Season Nominee!!!! Brings a tear to my A-Dub!!! Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!! You’re like the only RR Admin dude that has been Calling Out “No Money Weems” all season long in your roll call as a Euro Leaguer in disguise –thank you for shedding light on the veiled nepotism destroying the Raps from the inside out–

      GOOD NEWS: THE PACERS FIRED JIM O’BRIEN (a heckuva a lot betta coach than Triano) @ 17-27…We’re 13-35, TRULY WHAT GIVES BRYCO?????????

    • Drbball

      A true Raptor fan rips his team apart and spends the majority of his time on this sh*tty site!

  2. Joaquim

    Perfect write-up, I couldn’t have said it better.

    My family and I were at last night’s debacle. WE drove 8 hours from the Peg to watch our first live NBA game. the whole experience, aside from the game, was worth it. I too share your feelings about the effort last night, and I can’t see anything positive from the effort or what they were trying to accomplish.

    I think the organization is risking losing fans and the Board, BC, and management needs to step it up. Otherwise it will be too late and then what?? Lose fans and possibly risk losing the franchise?

    Suffice it to say that I wasn’t too proud to be wearing red yesterday among the Timberwolves fans.

  3. Nicolasbueno09

    So true. My family drove through a white-out in Winnipeg for 8 hours to come out and see our favourite NBa team play against the Wolves. I got to see my favourite player play and got his signature and guess what? 5-24 3 rebounds and he can’t even drive to the basket. I was thrilkled to seee them get pounded

  4. Theswirsky

    “Now his presence is all that is bad about the Toronto Raptor organization right now”

    so true. The guy is a bum. I’m not sure if its better that Vince didn’t try on purpose or that Bargnani doesn’t know how to.

    He’s a fucking waste of space, a waste of money and most importantly a waste of playing time. He is an embarrasment, not only to the Raptors, but all NBA players, basketball players in general and should be to Italians aswell.

    Just waiting for centre sports to start selling Bargnani skirts.

    • DG88

      Funny thing is there are people who think he can be a great 2nd or 3rd option on a winning team LOOOL

    • Warpjv

      so would you trade him for a 10 million dollar waste of space on another team if they would take him? I bet you would, and the other team’s GM would be laughing all the way to the bank.

      • Nilanka15

        No, you trade him for young talent and draft picks. Plain and simple.

  5. Balls of Steel

    I’m hoping that this article ends the fantasy for fans who sees things through rose coloured glasses. I have said it before and I’ll say it again, Barg’s BYC status this year is our way out. Once his real contract value kicks in, it is going to be very difficult to move him. Sam Mitchell was often criticized for his lack of X’s and O’s knowledge but it was his tough love approach on defence that made his mark on this team (they’re the kinds of coaches that get shown the door usually). I miss him (at one point, the Raps were giving up only 99 pts. per game), Charles Oakley, Antonio Davis, Doug Christie and Kevin Willis.

    The other teammates are affected by this and as much as Triano wants to sit him down, he wants his job too. Can you imagine Bargs’ minutes shrinking from 35+ to 24? Can you imagine if Davis starts over AB7?

    • KJ-B

      Amen B.o.S. If we don’t trade him b4 that kicks in — the Light at the end of the tunnel, quoting Sir Charles, “Might be a train”… NOBODY’s looking to get hit twice…Set #7 free to be the 6th man he was born to be…ELSEWHERE!!!

  6. WhatWhat

    Dear Mr. Bargnani,

    It is with the deepest and utmost regret that we must inform you that you are not being payed per shot. Because of this, we would strongly advise you to stop shooting at your current rate. If you still refuse to heed our warning, we would also strongly suggest that you take more shots in the post, or attack the basket at a higher rate instead.

    We know that you may feel that the only think you bring to the table is scoring, but that it not entirely the case. You have shown on multiple occasions that you can do other, equally important things like defend and rebound. We are not demanding that you become Dwight Howard, we are humbly requesting that you become passable in those regards.

    No, you do not get payed per rebound, blocked shot, or defensive stop either, but if you redirected your energy more toward doing those things, your scoring would not be so important. We simply ask that you ponder whether you should heed our suggestions or not, for your benefit and the entire team.


    The Toronto Raptors Fanbase

  7. DG88

    Seriously I want to sign a petition to get Bargs off the team. It’s laughable just watching him play defense and then have the gall to chuck 24 shots and only make 5. I mean come on do something else other than trying to score. I’m sick and tired of this pansy from Italy get a friggin free ride for his whole career, except when Mitchell was coaching him. Bargnani only cares about scoring and nothing else, since that’s the case make him a 6th man. The fact that Triano didn’t find anything wrong with Andrea’s play only strengthens the fact that he’s a puppet of BC and MG. Another thing, Triano putting Weems in the starting line up it kills DeMar’s game since all the Sonny does is shoot bad shots. The fact that Weems was 2-7 and Bargs was 1-6 in the first quarter and only giving DeMar the ball to try and hit a buzzer beater to end the first is a travesty. Triano has not shown any accountability what so ever this season, if you can score you play. If you defend you get benched. The only thing he’s doing properly right now is the tank movement. After that I want him off this team.

  8. Joe1

    Bargnani is easily the most frustrating player on the roster, if the not the whole NBA.

  9. Rey Y.

    It’s not what you know, it’s who you know.. Bargnani’s got the connections.

    • Statement

      I honestly don’t remember when there was this much resentment about one player, outside of Vince.

      It all stems from the fact that he has been spoiled. It’s like working with somebody who gets all these perks for really no reason, just because the boss thinks that it is worth it and can’t stand to have his ego deflated.

      We all have people like this in our lives, people we resent for that reason. That is why he gets this much vitrol, because he epitomizes “entitlement”. And too boot, he isn’t even a good player, which really makes all this “entitlement” about one man’s ego, and his inability to want to correct the biggest mistake of his career.

      Of course, I could be wrong and Colangelo could trade Bargs or give Triano free reigns to cut this guys minutes (preferrably to non-starter), but I doubt it. Colangelo seems like he was bred from a culture of spoiled entitlement as well, so maybe this isn’t such a big deal to him at all.

      • KJ-B

        Apparently LeBron was pretty spoiled in Cleveland…BUT HE WON BACK TO BACK MVP’s, THAT’S SOOOOO NOT AN EXCUSE!!!!

  10. Paps

    Would reducing his minutes really get JT fired? I know Sam was fired for it but he was also against a lot of other things. JT actually is a team player and clearly sees what we so I say get a 7ft D leaguer who is hungry to prove him self. Not the new guy who shoots long 2s.

  11. Mack North

    My blood was boiling just reading this article, shoot it still is… My hatred toward that player reached a whole new level last night. I was almost half joking when I called his over/under rebounding line at 2.5, I now know not to joke about it anymore.

    Great piece A Dub

  12. RaptorFan


    I see that you are drinking the Kool-Aid these days as well 🙂 🙂
    You have problem with AB’s less than 10 million dollar contract but think highly of Amir Johnson who is making 6-7 million for fouling at that rate and making himself a non-factor in this game !!!

    Come on Pal, How is that better than AB? You write a line about Jay’s bad coaching and 4 paragraph on AB ?!!

    Get your fact straight. The whole team check out, why do you think that is?

    No one is denying that AB was bad and has been bad recently but devoting a whole article to bashing him while 80% of this team palyed like Crap is njust amature.

    This is an article that a 10 year old can write and some readers here expect little more expert analysis from RR here.

    • Cal S

      Can’t disagree more. Everything said in this article needed to be said. Amir worse than AB? please. Amir brings energy to the raps and actually tries on defence and grabs rebounds. Andrea takes shots away from other people, allows his man to score at will, doesn’t grab rebounds, has no emotion, and then shrugs this game off like its nothing.

      Perfect post game wrap up

      • RaptorFan

        Amir …. Energy …. Amir was not even on the court due to his foul troubles to have any impact !! In order to bring energy and hustle and … you have to be able to be in the court in the face place.

        Looking at the games this season, there has been almost 30% of the games that Amir basically played no role what so ever due to his foul troubles.

        Then comes another 20% where Evans was playing and Amir was limited to almost a Non-Factor due to monster rebound numbers that Evans was putting up.

        • Tim W.

          30%???? No role whatsoever?? Where are you getting these figures from? I’ve already said that Amir has averaged nearly 30 mpg the last two months. It’s really hard to argue (without basically lying), that Amir’s foul trouble has prevented him from making a big contribution this season.

          But if we’re pulling numbers out of a hat, I count 15 games where Bargnani scored fewer than 20 ppg. When Bargnani is not scoring, he generally has a negative impact on the team, because he does little else. So that means that in, at least, 36% of the games this season, Bargnani has had a negative impact. I say at least because it’s my contention that he needs to score at least 26 ppg in order to not have a negative impact.

          Plus, how does Reggie putting up monster rebounding numbers limit Amir to be a non-factor?

          • RaptorFan

            You should do some research and look at the numbers. I am sure you will see the pattern. It is right there for anyone who is interested to see.

            These numbers are undeniable and Raptors had minimal success while AB does not play well but have lost so many games when Amir Palys well.

            Also, One can see easily ( again numbers are there for anyone who is interested) that Evan turned Amir to Non-Facor when he was playing.

            Amir is Lucky that AB, DD and Weems are allergic to rebound and that his only competition is Davis for all those rebounds. Maybe this is why he decided to foul out last night instead battling Love and getting exposed as a fraud !!!

            That all being said, It is not only Amir or AB or … This is team as a whole that is struggling but you simply have too much grudge against AB to see this.

            • sergio_valente

              I think it’s clear the reason the team struggles when Bargnani struggles is because he’s an unrepentant chucker. When’s his shot is falling and he’s scoring a lot, his offensive output can exceed his defensive and rebounding deficiencies and we play better. However, when’s he’s not off, not only is he playing terrible defence, but he’s also throwing up brick after brick.

              At the end of the day, you can’t build around a guy who plays on one end of the floor and who’s overall game suffers so much when he’s not hot. At best, Bargnani would make a great instant offence big man who could tear up second units. He could be our goofy, oversized JR Smith.

              • KJ-B

                The thing with JR Smith is that he can shoot into a game but also out of a game as well!!! Nice player to have but not a player you build around–unfortunately with sport and ego, it’s ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE that # 7 could suck it up and not be the man in the organization where he was drafted #1 overall and given preferential treatment over every1 not named Chris Bosh!

            • Tom Liston

              Given the debate, I did run the numbers:

              Amir has been a consistently strong rebounder – even his DET days:
              (TRB% is generally the best indication)

              Evans is a superb rebounder, but has there is a huge gab wrt their impact on offense.

              Johnson has a +7.04 point impact on offensive rating when on the floor versus off.
              Evans has a -7.55 point impact on offensive rating when on the floor versus off.

    • Tim W.

      It’s amazing how some people will try and distract you from seeing one player by jumping up and down and pointing at another, saying, “This guy’s bad, too!”. Unfortunately, you’re vastly exaggerating facts in order to make your point.

      It’s true that Bargnani is making $8 million, not $10, but to then say that Amir is making $6-7 million, and not the $5 he is actually making doesn’t help your case.

      And Amir has more of a positive impact, even with the foul trouble, than Bargnani does playing 5-10 minutes more per game. For their contracts, Amir is actually more productive than Bargnani is.

      And before last night’s game, when the score had as much to do with him playing only 21 minutes than his fouls, Amir had played more than 30 mpg in 7 of the previous 10 games. Hard to say that he’s not having an impact in that many minutes.

      I realize your a Bargnani fan, but everyone has a very good reason be criticizing Bargnani right now. By trying to point out Amir’s flaws, all you’re doing is making it seem like you’re completely blind to Bargnani’s faults.

      • Raptorfan

        It is you who have a personal grudge against AB and your bias is so obvious now. It is like the man Crush of Buddah for Amir while in your case it is a hate relationship !!

        Positive Impact : Really, how did you measure that ? As I said in the earlier post there are lamost 50% of the games this season that Amir was not able to do anything ( foul troubles and Evans factor). Then how did you manage to measure your “Positive Impact” ?

        Another stat that one can look at is how many games did Raptor won when AB played Bad? The number is less than 10%.

        How many games did Raptors win when Amir Played well and AB played Bad ?
        Again, less than 10%.

        So where is that “positive Impact” !!!

        Again, put you bias to the side. This is not about one player as some other people here mentioned. This TEAM has problems. There is no accountability. The Coaching is out Coached every single night. Acinja takes a 3 . Trey Johnson getting minutes over Wright and ….

        List goes on and on … While some fans focus on a single player. Last year it was Bosh, This year it is AB.

        But your case it different. You are just a simple hater of AB and nothing more.

        • Tim W.

          I have a personal bias against players who don’t help their team win. That’s it. I have absolutely not personal feelings about Bargnani himself. Just the game he plays.

          And positive impact is something you can see while watching, but if you need stats, just look here…

          And the reason the team hinges more on Bargnani having a good game than Amir is because when Bargnani has a bad game, he literally has a negative impact on the game. When Amir has a bad game, it doesn’t impact that much because he still usually has a positive impact.

          And loads of people have criticized Triano. Where the hell have you been? As well as Weems and Kleiza and others. If you think others don’t get criticized than that is some of the most selective reading I have ever seen. But no one else plays as many minutes as Bargnani does. And no one else has so many people vehemently defending him.

          • RaptorFan


            LOL, Look who is leading that table. Peja, Anderson and Banks 🙂 This is how bad and misleading of a measure are those numbers.

            You want real numbers, look at the games Evans Played, Looked at the games AB played well and do your own calculation and thinking. Don’t put yourself in Buddah’s box and limit yourself to +/- because then, you would think Peja, Anderson and Banks Have the ” Most Positive Impact” on the team.:)

            • sergio_valente

              It’s called a small sample size. Peja and Banks did rip it up while they played. Unfortunately they saw either minimal court time, or played garbage minutes. And Anderson was actually pretty productive. He hit open shots, rebounded, hustled and played decent defence. If he wasn’t 30 and we weren’t rebuilding, he’d be a decent back up centre.

            • tom

              One thing I would agree with you — when AB has a good game, he more than perhaps anyone else on the team gives us a good chance of winning.

              Unfortunately when he’s bad, he’s darn near the worst player in the league.

        • Theswirsky

          Tim is exactly right. People try to distract from the true problem, over and over. Ofcourse then they say everyone else has a bias. And everyone else on the team is responsible first.

          “Another stat that one can look at is how many games did Raptor won when AB played Bad

          whats the definition of bad….. hell whats the definition of AB playing good. I’d hardly call many of his games good this entire season.

          How about you put your bias aside and open up your eyes to the game of basketball. The guy doesn’t try. He doesn’t rebound. He doesn’t play defense. He is completely inefficent. He gets more minutes and usage than anyone else.

          So feel free to blame everyone else. (lol Anjinca takes a single three… oh yeah how many did Bargs take… how many this season) It doesn’t change whats really happening out there.

          • RaptorFan

            No One is trying to distract anything …
            Some of us just saw how everything was blamed on Bosh last year and we see the same trend with AB this year !!!

            9 Players were changed last year, 6-7 this year and we still have the same problems and …

            What does that tell you ? This is not one players problem. This is GM that does not know how to build a team and get the right players and coaches.

            2 head coaches, 2 different assistant coaches and …. still same problems !!

            Yes, you want to be simple minded and just go after one player, so be it. It is all AB’s fault the same way it was all Bosh’s fault.

            The defense is AB’s fault the same way when people here were jumping on Jack and Beli last year and how we see how they are performing.

            This is not distracting anyone. This is just pointing to the big elephant in the room which some like Tim, choose to ignore because they have personal grudges against AB.

            • KJ-B

              His grudges, personal or otherwise, have nothing to do with the fact that he’s playing like a D-Leaguer in 2011… Sorry dude :/

            • Tim W.

              As I stated in the forum, I constantly said that Belinelli was a good defensive player and suggested starting Belinelli back at the beginning of March.
              In case you don’t want to read the whole thing, what I said exactly about Belinelli’s defense was this:
              “He’s also much better defensively than many give him credit for. In fact, I’d say that he’s the second best wing player on the defensive end, behind Wright.”

              I don’t hold a grudge against Bargnani. I hold a grudge against player’s who don’t help the team win. My question is, why don’t you???

        • ABpylon

          RaptorsFan…. positive impact is the effort on the deffensive end that leads to the occasional extra foul. AB doesnt have to worry about fouls because pylons dont get fouls.

        • Milesboyer

          The expectations for Bargnani are in line with his salary, it’s just that his level of play is not these days, hence the criticism. The dude is just too one-dimensional, plain and simple.

  13. Greg

    The fascination of Raptor fans with scrubs is just amazing and beyond me. Last year, everything was Bosh’s fault and he was hampering the development of AB and was stat padding and …

    Now, that Bosh is gone, it is AB’s turn. Everything is his fault and the scrubs who play 10 minutes or so while getting exposed on each play or fouling out before even breaking a sweat get a pass.

    • Tim W.

      You may have missed the part about Weems having a negative effect on the team. Or the numerous comments about Kleiza, or Calderon’s defense, or DeRozan’s defense etc. The problem is those roll players don’t average 35 mpg and take 18 shots per game, while being seemingly untouchable and unaccountable.

      And what people are getting upset about is a seeming lack of effort. Playing poorly is one thing. Playing poorly while not trying is unacceptable.

      Is everything Bargnani’s fault? Don’t be ridiculous. No one has ever said that, despite what some shellshocked Bargnani fans seem to claim. But Bargnani plays the most minutes per game of anyone on the team, yet consistently puts up the least effort on the defensive end of the floor.

      Last night, DeRozan had another bad shooting night, but has seemed to realize that it doesn’t mean he has nothing else to contribute to the team.

      Amir fouls too much, but he at least gives an effort on both ends of the court when he is on it At least he TRIES.

      Calderon may not be a good defensive player, but if he’s not shooting well, at least he can get the ball to people who are. And at least he will work hard out there.

      I don’t think nearly as much of Bayless’s game as others, as he still doesn’t seem to understand how to be a PG, but I’d never question his effort or desire.

      If you think other Raptors get passes, you have not been reading much. ALL the players get criticized. Some just deserve more criticism than others.

      • Ardefen

        just been looking at an oklahoma site. people there calling for durant to be traded for many and various reasons. Durant! puts things into perspective; i guess all team sites can’t see the good side of things.

  14. John

    This was posted on the fourm by FranktheTank and I think his one little paragraph is better than your whole article :

    If andrea was paid like a franchise player I would agree with all you naysayers to trade him. THe fact that he makes less then 10 million a year makes him untouchable. He is meant to be a second option on a good team. The raptors still have a chance to draft a first option or develop one in Demar. THis nonsense to trade andrea at 25 years old is stupid and sounds alot like Memphis getting rid of Paul Gasol. Memphis hasn’t made the playoffs in three seasons and the lakers have a chance to make 4 straight finals with Gasol. WHo ever gets andrea will benefit greatly from him maturing into a stud like Gasol did.
    Instant gratitude gets you now where. Blaming a team problem on one player gets you now where. THe raptors are just physically over matched most nights and you guys as fans are in denial. Thats why a guy like corey maggette kills us because we don’t have a wing player strong enough to stop him. MOst of the top teams are phsyically mature and have average age of 29.

    • Statement

      I wish I could get 10 million dollars to shoot 5-24 and grab 3 rebounds. Seriously, how do people defend this player? Why? Do you not want the team to win? What has this guy done?

      • WhatWhat

        Not only that, but his salary makes him “untouchable.” The comparison to Gasol is even more ridiculous.

        • whatif

          Gasol was never in love with the three ball, but I agree, at 25 it’s hard to write someone off

          • Balls of Steel

            It’s not writing off a 25-year old player, it’s realizing that he still has some value around the league and that GMs may still give something in return for him. For me, the discussion has shifted from hate to pragmatics. AB, much to my own dismay, is a player that does posses unique scoring abilities for a 7-footer. He’s quick and can beat you off the dribble. He’s 25 and is a BYC player. Those to me are assets that make him very valuable to this team, not as a player on the roster, but as a trade commodity. When the knees start to give him issues and is actually earning 10 Mil with 3 rebounds per game, then what? One thing is for sure, the Nowitzki, Gasol comparisons will soon evaporate into oblivion. As many Bargs fans have said, he looks good on this team or this team will thrive when they have AB7 on their roster. If that’s the case (which proves my point), then he has trade value. BC needs to make it happen.

            PS> I think the Bargs critics will ALL shut up (me especially) if the guy is pulling down 7-8 rebounds a night even though the team may still be losing. If he averaged 18 points/9 rebounds/1 block per game, we could still lose, have an identical record, but the fans would be or not be critical elsewhere.

      • John

        You can get 6.5 million and get in the court and foul out in the matter of 5 minutes and then sit on the bench…. No one is defending AB here but some people want to point to the bigger problems that this team has. The problem with this team is not one player or two. It is accountability that is missing. This is not a team. This is bunch players who were signed without even thinking if they compliment one another or if their styles match or …

        Why is Trey Johnson getting more minutes than Wright ?
        Why Ancija is shooting a 3 Pt ?
        Why AB is not here over summer to learn few post moves and …

        Why ……

        The problem is not one player. It is the whole team starting from BC.

        • Statement

          Bargs as a player epitomizes the lack of accountability that has plagued this team. He IS the shining example of what is wrong with this team.

          Think about it, Mitchell, who was rightfully playing the best players on his team, was fired because Bargs couldn’t get his, now Bargs is stinking it up and still playing huge minutes.

          That just smells like shit. I don’t think that it is Bargs fault at all, he just plays the minutes allocated to him. I agree that it is a problem stemming from B.C. In fact, my post above calls Colangelo out.

          It’s just that people are resentful of Bargs because he is the face of entitlement for this franchise.

        • Balls of Steel

          John, I hope you are not developing amnesia because Amir had a very nice line from the Milwaukee game (24/12/2 steals). Want Amir’s foul rate to go down, pair him with Davis. When you have a center with porous defense, Amir really has no choice but to help (which usually leads to a foul). Prior to coming to TO, Amir already has foul issues. It was only exacerbated because of his playing time with “the magician”.

          Let me ask you this, when was the last time Andrea fouled out? What are his in-game fouls stat since he got into the league? Amir’s foul rate (where before he wasn’t good at positioning or too eager and bit on pump fakes), has evolved into fouling because his center couldn’t care less. Oh, yes, Amir did play with Bargs against Milwaukee, however, Skiles chose to isolate Bogut against Bargs (and we knew what happened there). Amir had his hands full with Ilyasova. Take away Ersan (where he had to give him man-to-man defence all the time), and he would’ve had to help AB with Bogut and gotten himself in the usual foul jam while AB stands around without expression.

          Andrea had 3 rebounds, -17 and one foul in 32 minutes. Enough said.

          • RaptorFan

            LOOOOOL, Last year it was Bosh who was stealing rebounds from AB, taking space away under the post from AB and … you don’t believe me, read the comments from last year.

            This year, now that the big, bad, stat padder Bosh is gone, it is AB who is making Amir foul. It is AB’s lack of defense that is making Amir over foul and become non-factor and it is AB that is taking passes away from Amir and hence hindering his offensive game !!!

            Do you see the pattern here ??

            • Balls of Steel

              Yes, the pattern here is that Andrea is a poor front court partner (for Bosh and Amir) and is a poor NBA player altogether. I’ll shut up when his man-to-man and help defence as well as his rebounding improves. Rome is burning my friend. Stop denying it.

              I’m fantasizing a Davis and Amir front court with Bargs coming off the bench. I’ll bet my left or right testicle that it will help this team on all accounts.

        • Tim W.

          No one is defending Bargnani, but his fans are desperately setting fires to other houses hoping we don’t notice the castle is burning down.

          Amir Johnson doesn’t foul out in a matter of 5 minutes. He doesn’t foul ou in a matter of 10 or even 20. He’s been averaging nearly 30 mpg the last two months. Does he still foul too much? Sure, but he always gives effort and works hard. And he consistently has a positive impact on the team.

          You guys seem to think that we are all saying that everything is Bargnani’s fault. It’s not. But when the roof is caving in, it’s really hard to focus on the placement of the furniture.

          • RapthoseLeafs

            I’d never defend last night as even an okay effort by Andrea. Where do people get this idea that certain fans avoid defining his effort as anything less than what I just said. That said, the fires are all over the place. Last night, the only “non-fire” was Davis, in my opinion.

            As for the roof caving in – it already has. This season is for the Raps to clear away the burnt timbers (Kleiza) – yes he just came here – and to use some of the wood with value left, like Barbosa & Evans. With the TPE (hopefully), plus 2 draft picks, the Raptors are – painfully – moving forward. 11 straight losses shouldn’t change that.
            When it comes to moving forward, you suggest it not be with Andrea, and you know I disagree. Thing is, Fans want to know what BC is gonna do to correct this current edition, and I have to laugh. Very few successful companies (Apple would be a prime example), actually tell you its’ game plan. And if we’re tanking, do people seriously think Colangelo will say as much. Read between the lines (not you Tim – I respect your thoughts, AB argument aside).
            I said this a few days ago – if Dallas can “adjust” to a unique styled player (who’s better – do I even have to say that), then why can’t we find a way. Raptors have an added issue, that we have to adapt to – we’re in Canada – and we have to face the difficulties it creates. But we are a young team. One that makes many mistakes.

            Look at OKC today against Miami. They battled, and even though they are 21st in opponents OReb, and 22nd in opponents FG%, they continue to adjust to what is needed. Not everything comes at once.

            • KJ-B

              Sad day, but ’tis very true…Give up on #7 because he’s give up on you, ‘the faceless fan in the crowd-tvLand’………..

    • Cal S

      Gasol was also much better than bargnani at that point in his career. He also showed effort and didn’t go 5-24 with 3 rebounds.

    • KJ-B

      John are you related to John P???? IT DOESN’T MATTER WHAT HIS SALARY IS: HE IS NOT A STARTING CALIBRE CENTER IN THE NBA= No Boys Allowed!!!!

    • Milesboyer

      Andrea Bargnani will never, ever be as good as Pau Gasol because of the rebounding (or lack thereof in Bargs’ case) alone.

  15. Cito Knickz

    was a huge fan of andrea but it’s obvious this guy isn’t good…i know he can score at will but ball is more than scorinh

  16. torontonian_32

    I wonder if Triano is scared to get in his face. He shoots way too many threes and hardly, if ever, posts up. What is up with all of these big guys getting in love with the long shot. You’re 7 feet tall, go dunk it on someone. Who cares if you’re a shooter, that shouldn’t be your primary option ever!

    • Statement

      Actually, Bargs is averaging the least amount of 3-pt attempts in his career this year.

      I would prefer that Bargs take more threes actually, it’s the long twos that are killing his efficiency.

      In an ideal world Bargs would shoot threes and play inside. Like Kevin Love.

      Funny thing is, despite new “offensive versatility” found this year, Bargs is shooting the 2nd worst % in his career.

  17. Alberto

    Same reaction in Italy about AB7, at the moment he is not a good flag for our country in nba league, better of him Belinelli or Gallinari. Although I think he is “tired” (also a millionar may be tired and this hurt everybody, me too) he can do more and more. AB will never a franchise player, this is the reality, so this situation (a team without a true franchise player anche with some troubles in coaching) is no good for him e for anybody follows the team. I don’t know if a trade is the ultimate solution, but may be better for both. Monday @Indiana for a win, let’s go raps fan !

  18. JHP

    Great post and I’m sure JT has had the same thoughts. But he’s a company man and knows the drill. What bothers me is the guys BC has signed long term!! BA has given up, time to trade his ass. That way he can work out for some other team. 5/10 years is way long time to wait for a player to come around.

  19. PeaceDawg

    I had a dream that the reason Bargnani, Weems, Kleiza are allowed to jack up shot after shot from the perimeter is that our GM has a master plan to trade them all and this is just a way to showcase them all. Then I woke up realizing the master plan also included Ajinca who the GM has been keeping tabs on for years, and he is Bargnani 2.0.

  20. Bob222

    Next home game I want to hear the entire crowd boo Bargnani ever time he makes a joke of an effort on the defensive end – which would pretty much be every play.
    I’d love to hear Colangelo give a Phaneuf-type defense of how “even though I have appointed this player to be the star and leader of the team and he totally sucks, that doesn’t mean he or I should be booed.”
    The only way the Raptors win in the next five years is if Colangelo and Bargnani are gone and the only way that can happen is if there’s a fan revolt and the beancounters at MLSE think it might hurt the bottom line. Speaking of which, how laughable is it that Colangelo gets paid $4 million a year and doesn’t want to take a pay cut. I’ll tell you one thing, the guys got balls…

  21. Ericnorris

    its time to move on from the Il Mago era, its just hard to root for this guy and the team chemistry seems awful, dump him and triano, and let pj see what he can get out of demar

  22. dunkinderozan

    ADUB you should seriously be banned from writing these articles.
    Bargnani is clearly playing injured if you can’t notice then i suggest you get your vision checked (NO SERIOULSY)… If this was Chris Bosh or Wince Carter they would take the easy route and sit out,, do you ever hear Bargnani use injuries as an excuse.

    Also since your cocky and clearly call out his 5-24 shooting night who do you suggest take those shots if not for him. Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, Julian Wright??? I dare you to see the results… If you havent noticed Andrea has had many volume shooting nights throught the season with over 50% effeciency. All of a sudden you start trashing him because of he is showing heart and character by playing injured,,, you have serious issuess broo.

    • Tim W.

      Loads of players play injured. Amir is playing injured. But you still try and find a way to contribute even if you are injured and not scoring. Bargnani seem to be the only one you can’t.

      • dunkinderozan

        lool the funny thing is the way Amir plays most gams youd think hes been injured all season because he avereages what 10 minutes a game? I bet most of you on this site who saw him drop 24 against the bucks were thinking he should be our new go to guy.. I wounder how many points Andrea would get each game if he was left Wiiiide open all game…When you expand so much energy trying to score at one end, then guarding the teams biggest player at the other end it might be a little more diffuclt then being left wide open on offence like amir usually is..because amir is such a non threat on offense this also allows amir to get easy rebounds when his man trys doubling on andrea ..

        • WhatWhat

          Amir’s averaging 25.3 minutes per game. Nobody has thought that Amir could become our go to scorer after that Bucks game, nor is he left wide open. Bargnani doesn’t attract many doubles because he doesn’t play in the post enough. Bargnani is the go to guy by default, not because he can truly handle it, as he doesn’t have enough energy to play at both ends unlike other players in the league.

          Bogut going 12-14 doesn’t mean that Bargs shouldn’t redirect more of his energy on D? Especially when Bogut scored on him three times straight in OT? (No, those were NOT tough shots, Bargnani allowed him to get very deep post position.) Or maybe Amir not being the focal point of the offense allowed him to stop Bogut twice in a row.

          Or about how how Bogut’s offensive rating is lower than 100, while battling through a blood infection. But Ilyasova lit Amir up so it doesn’t matter. But since Amir doesn’t have to anchor a mediocre offense, it’s inexcusable for him, right? It doesn’t even matter that that they neutralized each other or that he scored more than Bargnani on half of the shot attempts?

          Bargnani is regressing, this is what the uproar is about, nothing more.

          • RapthoseLeafs

            [” Bargnani doesn’t attract many doubles because he doesn’t play in the post enough.” ]

            Tell me you’re not gonna stand by this statement? If you do, you need to check in with a few NBA Coaches.

            “We just took him out of his comfort zone,” Love said. “He wanted to post up right on the block but we pushed him out to 15, 18 feet. He tried to back us down from there, but we forced him into a lot of tough turnaround jump shots, a lot of fadeaways.”

            The more I watch these latter games, the more I sense that teams are figuring out a strategy with Andrea. Pound him in the offensive zone (ie. double teams), and then pound him on the defensive side. Box off Demar, and that pretty much takes away Raptor offense. As much as we can say Bargnani is not a true Center, we can also say we have no other Centers. Ajinca is not that guy – maybe some day – and Alabi is much too raw. Davis & Amir get eaten by true Centers, so Jay has to go with the Devil he knows. It sucks, unless you really want Kyle.

            [” Bargnani is regressing, this is what the uproar is about, nothing more. “]

            Andrea is trying to adapt. Maybe not to the success you and others want, but this is the 1st year that teams are focusing on him. He needs to up his defensive game, and counter opponents focus. Trouble is, Raptors need to adapt as well, and it’s proving to be frustrating – as we can all see.

            • Nilanka15

              Bargnani stinks man. You’re wasting a lot of keystrokes defending him. It’s the fastest way to carpel tunnel syndrome.

        • yertu damkule

          just because you keep saying something over & over, doesn’t make it true.

    • Balls of Steel

      You should check your numbers bro. Also, Ed Davis has played limited games, Amir is only 23 (although been in the league longer but is only 23) and Wright is in his third year. What’s your point? AB is playing heavy minutes and chucking 25+ shots a night. How can you compare? Playing injured? C’mon man, don’t drink that Kool-Aid. His rebounding averages haven’t spiked, healthy or not (with or without Bosh, with or without Evans for that matter). Stop making excuses. He’s got the biggest paycheck, the one who makes the most shots on most nights, the tallest (if that matters) and the first pick overall. Look at our record and say that he is playing hurt. The only thing hurting here is his game. If you think this will improve guess again. He’s not getting any younger and those knees on that 7-foot frame ain’t gonna last long. Then what, start a thread in two years that say, “What if we traded Barney?”

      Stop drinking the Kool-Aid man.

      • dunkinderozan

        Firstly that you are comparing the skill level of Bargnani with Amir and Ed is a joke in itself I am defenitly not drinking that cool aid. I consider this Bargnani’s rookie year in terms of having an opportunity to score and make players around him better. He is still young 25 and his ceiling is still high. I don’t need to check my number watching games are enough for me. The guy was shooting lights out before his injuries it doesnt take a genious to figure out he should be resting, but because of our long list of injuries he is sucking it up.. Its hard enough being a focal point of every teams defence when healthy let alone playing with bad knees (aka why do u think his three pointers arent falling hes using more wrist lest knees get it goood!

        any thing else u want me to tell u about bargs game? oh maybe hs still top 20 in scoring or what about the fact i wouldnt be suprised if he mad the all star game?

        • Balls of Steel

          Dude, you wrote,

          “Also since your cocky and clearly call out his 5-24 shooting night who do you suggest take those shots if not for him. Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, Julian Wright??? I dare you to see the results.”

          Isn’t that comparing on your side? The fact that you continue to harp on his offensive prowess makes you the Kool-Aid drinker. Don’t worry man, I got nothing personal against you. I just think you’re a bit misguided when it comes to Andrea. All Star game you said? I couldn’t care less. He’s not helping his team with his 21 ppg. He is detrimental because of his deficiencies in other areas. Stop looking at scoring. It doesn’t mean much in terms of wins but is certainly a deceiving “gleaming beacon of light” when the team’s play and record is so atrocious. I love the Raps, I just don’t like the preferential treatment that Bargs receives on a nightly basis.

          PS> Monta Ellis is scoring 25.7 ppg yet GState is 19-27, while Eric Gordon is at 24.1 (Clippers are 18-28, though playing better). It’s not about scoring. Come to think of it, Bargs plays like an all star DURING an all-star game, you know, all offence and no D.

          • dunkinderozan

            Actually I think its the other way around I have ntohing personal againt you because I think your being misguided when it comes to Andrea’s rebounding.. Just because he is a tall dude all of sudden everyone assumes his position is center and should grab an automatic 10 rebounds.. That just isant his nature, yes he guards apposing centres because we have no other legitamite centres on our team why do u think Colangelo was willing to give up Calderon our best pg for Chandler he was desperate to get him so he can move bargnani to his natural position a stretch power forward. Bargnani is just being scapegoated a victim for our rebounding deficiencies when in reality we have one of the worst defensive teams reguarldess if he collect 5 rebounds or 8 like wtf cares

        • DG88

          Wow you are a delusional Bargnani fanboy. Every player in the league is injured right now. So if it’s affecting your offense do something on defense, make the extra pass, rebound. Just don’t keep on jacking shots when there are obviously not going in. On Bargs being a focal point didn’t all of you fanboy say that Bargs would be an All Star once he’s the number one option. With his offensive talents he can take anyone one. Well this is what you wanted and this is what you get. So stop making excuses for him. So I doubt anyone expected him to not score 20 a game he was scoring 17 with Bosh. The attempts to get to 20 points is ludicrous though (18.3 FGA) and his shooting percentage is terrible for a big man. Also Bargs won’t be in consideration for an All Star spot, look at our record and look at every other stat that he puts up other than scoring against All Star big men of this league. You should find a huuuge difference between them.

    • Theswirsky

      people have been saying these EXACT SAME THINGS about Bargnani YEARS prior to this ‘injury’ he had.

      Is he playing hurt… maybe… but I sure as hell don’t notice. This is what he does. He just occasionally hits more shots… make him less inefficient than right now.

      • dunkinderozan

        Years prior to this season he was nothing more than a lanky centre watching Chris Bosh develope his game then leave. Let me add 6+ years of dominating the ball thus stunting Bargnani’s growth. Your comparing apples to oranges buddy.

        Well can you explain the fact before he got injured the first time, he was top 15 in scoring and shooting almost 50% while still taking almost 20 shots a game, all this while being our focal point … ya thats what I thought.. The fact that our other players aren’t producing is not his fault.

        • Theswirsky

          can up explain the fact that before he was injured he was the worst rebounding defender in the NBA and now still so?

          by the way his fg% never topped 50% on average. It always sat around 46% (topping shortly at 47%)… which is horrid for a C, not bad for a sg.

          with him taking 20 shots a game its no wonder he was top 15 in scoring. There is not to many players in the league who wouldn’t be top 15 scoring if they took 20 shots a game. Its about efficiency, which he isn’t

          … ya thats what I though. The fact is he is the most unproductive player on this team, and thats not his teammates fault.

        • DG88

          Lol at Bosh stunting Bargnani’s growth, that excuse again. When Bosh was here Andrea was a better player. He rebounded better, he was blocking shots and playing adequate defense usually. Now his rebounds are down, his defense is terrible, his block are down, his turnovers are up. If Anything Bargnani has regressed since last year. Don’t bulll**** me that he’s scoring 20 a game. There are more than enough players in the league that score 20 a game. Taking 20 shots a game to get 20 points is no efficient at all.

    • DG88

      Well when your shot isn’t falling do something else. Pass the ball, rebound play defense etc. Just don’t jack up a shot every time the ball touches your hands. I mean to take 24 shot in 30 minutes is ridiculous. You can come at me and say that DeRozan shot 2-11. That’s still 13 less shots than Bargs and most of those shots were late in the game. DeRozan was playing hard defensively, rebounding and play making and trying to get his teammates going. Bargs was just chucking the ball none stop. It’s damn irritating just watching him play like that.

  23. Jose

    All true about Bargnani’s game. No heart, no hustle, he is just one spoiled millionaire. All true – but, this organization is in far deeper trouble IMO. Bargnani’s departure would not solve all the problems. We just need to remember who drafted Bargnani in a first place? Who assembled this group of players? Who fired the decent (not a great) coach when this team had .500 record? Who let Bosh walk out for nothing? Who overpays the Hedos & Kaponos of the league?

    I’ve got a feeling that some players or the coach will be the scapegoats, while the main culprit behind the scenes gets another big fat contract. Make no mistake about it.

    • dunkinderozan

      no heart no huslte…

      where have you been this year?
      Maybe u should ask Amare’s opinion when Bargnani dropped 43 points on the knicks oh wait you probably dont remeber that game because you are just as ignorant as ADUB amd the rest of these bloggers

      • Balls of Steel

        You mean 41 points and WE LOST 110-113 in New York. Point taken.

      • DG88

        That was Bargs best game of the season, I will not doubt that but the Knicks have one of the worst defenses in the league. The fact that Bargs dropped 43 on them is a testament to his scoring ability, but as a testament of how bad the Knicks defense really is.

    • Theswirsky

      don’t think anyone thinks if Bargs gets traded/benched etc this team is suddenly good. But atleast its a start in the right direction. Moving anyone else first is just ignoring the problem.

  24. voy

    hilarious read. if it was intended as sarcasm it would rank right up there with Jonathan Swift’s “A Modest Proposal”.

    If you dont like Andrea, then, hey, you dont like Andrea. Thats fine. No one should try and convice you otherwise. However, to take one game and come up with the conclusions you came up with is just classic… and about as accurate as someone taking the NY Knick game and trying to argue the opposite.

    The fact that some fans may have driven 10 hours to watch the Raps play holds absolutely zero significance in an objective analysis of yesterday’s game. Who f’n cares? Andrea played a bad game. Some mother f’er could have ran from Egypt to see Bargs play, last night. It wouldn’t make the game he played even worse.

    A baby dolphin got trapped in a tuna fish net last night. How dare Andrea shoot 5-24!!! Doesn’t he care about baby dolphins?

    The fact that Andrea makes more money in a year than most of us will ever hope to see in our lifetime is important how???? Have I missed something? Do other pro athletes make 30K-60K a year and play each game better than the last?

    Did you submit this article to a publication whose readership is exclusively menstrating chicks? If so, congratulations you are a shoo-in. I dunno, maybe, perhaps, you’re trying to land Kotex as a sponsor, or something.

    I’m not gonna argue that Andrea had a bad game. He had a horrible game. He’s had a pretty poor 2 weeks, but come on dude, you are much better than your piece today.

    All the best.

    • Balls of Steel

      Very few have brought up the salary here (but admittedly has been used before to drive several points home). All I’m saying is that there is no denying of his scoring talent. However, much of the frustration is directed at his lack of passion on the defensive end. I cannot confirm or deny the preferential treatment that he receives. However, if perception is reality (sometimes it happens in life), then as a fan, one could not deny that it’s there. We’re away from locker rooms so we don’t know how the other players feel. If Andrea had a 5-24 night, what other areas of his game did improve to compensate for his lack of good shooting? Did he pull down rebounds, boxed out his man, or was a reliable last line of defense (as his position ultimately is defined as)?

  25. Chris

    It is kind of pathetic when someone who is 9 inches shorter than you and playing on the perimeter to be getting three times as many rebounds as you.

    • Statement

      IMHO, rebounding is a talent. It’s a skill. Bargs does not possess the skill.

      He can’t learn it, he will not improve.

      Using a very large sample of NBA players, the year-over-year correlation in rebounding is .83, according to Dave Berri. That means players rebounding numbers are almost perfectly consistent year-to-year. That indicates that good rebounders will stay as good rebounders and bad rebounders will stay as bad rebounders.

      What does this mean? This means that if Bargs isn’t scoring, there is pretty much no way he is going to have a good rebounding game to make up for it because he doesn’t have the hustle or skill to be a rebounder.

  26. Red Baron

    Bargs is not a Center. Never was, never will be. He’s never been a good rebounder (even when he’s playing with energy he just lacks the timing, footwork, positioning, instincts). He lacks instincts on when to help on D, when to stay home on his man….To me the biggest question is why is Triano playing someone at a position he simply can’t play? Based on Reggie Evans height (6’8″ at best) I guess he could play some some 2 guard or small forward? right. I’m not sticking up for Bargs…he simply has to “figure it out” and play with more heart, but honestly what is Triano doing??

    • Balls of Steel

      He’s not a center but is too slow to guard most of the starting 4’s in this league. This is plain and simple. The only reason BC was willing to trade for Chandler is because Tyson represents a safety net for Barg’s deficiencies. At the four, AB’s rebounding numbers will not improve nor will his man to man or help defense. BC wants to get a partner for Andrea that will mask his faults in the defensive end. Keeping him at center is simply the nature of the beast in this league – that marginally good defensive centers are hard to find, hence Andrea stays where he is. Let’s put it this way, if the Raps do get a decent center (realistically, say a Dalembert), well AB won’t start putting up Nowitzki-like numbers all of a sudden. Perhaps there will be less losses because our interior defence will improve with the addition Dalembert.

      In Dirk’s 5th year in the league, he averaged 25.1 pts and 9.9 rebounds. To make things more interesting, the Mavs centers in the 02-03 season was Raef LaFrentz and Shawn Bradley (not exactly the most imposing figures in the NBA). He led the team in rebounds for that year (and many years to follow). Was he an awesome defender? Not any better than AB in my opinion. Offensive skill set is just about the same with better handles on AB. Heart, passion and Ball IQ (I think we know who gets this). If he does get the ultimate true center to partner with, will he reach 25 and 10 in his fifth year? I don’t think so.

      • RapthoseLeafs

        Dallas is allowing 4.5 less points than last year, even though TOTAL rebounding differential is still about 1 (in favour of their opponents). Dallas has essentially closed the OReb differential from a -2.0 to a -0.9
        Cuban is successfully masking Dirk’s style – we’re not. By the way, Dirk is averaging 6.9 rebounds per game this season, AND 0.5 Offensive Rebounds (7.7 last year with 1.0 OReb). AB is averaging 1.3 OReb for the season.

        • Balls of Steel

          The point I made however was based on Nowitzki’s total when he was in his
          5th year in the league with soft centers playing beside him. Around that
          time, no one was masking anything from Dirk’s game. Actually, in his 4th
          year, he averaged 10.4. I laugh when people compare the Nowitzki’s number
          now to Bargnani’s total. He is older and was not as athletic as he was in
          2002. Even now, Cuban is not masking Dirk by pairing him with Chandler.
          Nowitzki is good since he entered the league, while Barg’s game is already
          showing signs of regression.

        • Balls of Steel

          The point I made however was based on Nowitzki’s total when he was in his 5th year in the league with soft centers playing beside him. Around that time, no one was masking anything from Dirk’s game. Actually, in his 4th year, he averaged 10.4. I laugh when people compare Nowitzki’s number now to Bargnani’s current totals. He is older and was not as athletic as he was in 2002. Even now, Cuban is not masking Dirk by pairing him with Chandler. Nowitzki is good since he entered the league, while Barg’s game is already showing signs of regression.

          At age 32, Disco Dirk is still out-rebounding the younger AB7. Sad. And by the way, it’s good that you can find some miniscule stat to defend this guy. Oreb for the season means squat especially if you’re 7 years younger. Nice try though.

        • Nilanka15

          Can we please stop with the Bargnani/Dirk comparison??? They’re ludicrous!

  27. barenakedman

    I was someone who thought Bargs could blossom into the new leader of the team now that he was the go to guy and not in the shadow of Bosh. I was wrong. He has been quite often an excellent one way player but not nearly consistent enough to be considered the leader of an nba team. I doubt there are any of his teammates who consider AB as the heart and soul of the team. Should we wait another year or two for him to develop into the star his fans see him as? If his game digresses what then?
    As far as a trade goes BC and his assistant, MG probably have an overblown idea of his value so that makes dealing him difficult even if they had the mindset to move him to improve the team. I would prefer we keep him for a number of reasons but he has to be given a role that properly reflects his strengths and doesn’t expose his weaknesses to the extent that they have been. Placing him in a lesser role could be better for Bargs and better for the team.

  28. Kujo

    Seeing, and hearing Jack Armstrong call out Andrea has been a breath of fresh air.

  29. Derekoshea

    I agree, be amazing if we could trade AB for a Bogut or a Kaman.. I would be soo happy

  30. RapthoseLeafs

    Wow A-Dub …. quite the rant. I’ll give you mine.

    This post is better suited to the Forum pages, which has less journalistic integrity. In this quest to off-set main stream media’s penchant (at least Toronto’s) to tow the “company” line, Toronto Raptor blogs have tried to present a more balanced analysis. This Post tended towards not respecting that, and provided ammunition for those who still believe mass-media shields us fans from bi-polar perspectives. Sorry, but that is how I feel.
    As troubling as Bargnani’s shooting abilities of late have been, this Minnesota game goes way beyond his weaknesses. And to focus on one player dismisses those issues that exist with this team. It was a TOTAL SYSTEMATIC BREAK-DOWN.

    Your headline [5-24, 3 Rebounds] makes 2 points, of which only 1 was a true factor. Whether Andrea got 3 rebounds or had he got 7 rebounds, this game was not lost on the boards. Minnesota – despite their troubling year – are a very strong rebounding team. Yet they allowed Toronto to grab 19 Offensive rebounds (to Timberwolves 8). Yes, a good part of that was because Toronto shot so lousy, but never-the-less, it was not the X-factor … by a long shot. No pun intended.

    As for 5-24, this had to be one of Andrea’s worst shooting nights this year, and would rank up there as one of his worst all time offensive efforts.

    This game was lost SOLELY because the Raptors – as a team – shot horrible. By the end of the 3rd Quarter, Toronto was 21-75 … an all-inspiring 28%. Factor out Bargnani, and that stat “jumped” to 30.8 %. That’s what caused this loss. As this game wore on, you got the sense no one wanted to shoot – and that included Andrea, despite his 24 shots. He had some open looks – that normally he`d take – but with his confidence down, he started to defer to others. In fact, few players looked like they wanted to shoot – they were too afraid. Even Demar was gun-shy.
    AB`s opportunities to shoot long range shots, can best be described by this report:

    [Bargnani was hindered by a team effort from the Timberwolves, too. “We just took him out of his comfort zone,” Love said. “He wanted to post up right on the block but we pushed him out to 15, 18 feet. He tried to back us down from there, but we forced him into a lot of tough turnaround jump shots, a lot of fadeaways.” CBS Sports]
    What Bargs has to learn this season (besides help-defense), is how to handle double teams. That’s what this season has to be about (besides Davis, Demar & others developing). Not ripping one player over and over. Raptors are playing with an abundance of D-League players, role players, and B-level talents. Andrea is not the franchise guy, and you (as well as others) need to get over that. Yes, we need a Center who plays like a Center. We also need a SF. And either better defensive players, or a REAL defensive scheme. One has to wonder about ours. Suffice to say, we have a lot of needs. As or opponents break this team down, they expose cracks everywhere. Including Andrea.
    Bleacher Report best sums it up:

    [ All you hear from “Leafs Nation” is that Brian Burke shouldn’t have traded away draft picks in order to land Phil Kessel. They rant and rave about how THIS is the decision that has put the Leafs in such a terrible position, and that if Burke would rebuild through the draft and create a young nucleus that can grow together, the Leafs would eventually thrive. Well, isn’t that exactly what Colangelo is doing (or at least attempting to do) right now? And still…the fickle fans of Toronto are saying he should get the boot. – BLEACHER REPORT – Why Fans Need To Stop Whining]


    Hell, I`m as frustrated as others by Raptor play – including Andrea. Focusing on one player, expecting to radically change this team, and exorcising the “Italian Devil” ain’t gonna change this team dramatically. This is a works in progress, and right now, this team has lost its` mojo. You want Kyle, you may get your wish. But rest assured, there’s a f*@k of a lot of pain in getting that wish.

    • barenakedman

      You haven’t addressed one of the main thrusts of A-Dubs post. It is that Bargnani is receiving favoritism because of his closeness to BC and Maurizio. How do you explain Andrea’s nonchalant attitude towards his defensive game and the fact that as the “leader” of the team he hasn’t been able to make a difference in the win column? He has the big minutes and the green light to shoot 25 shots a game which on other teams only go to a guy who has earned it.

      • RapthoseLeafs

        [” You haven’t addressed one of the main thrusts of A-Dubs post. It is that Bargnani is receiving favoritism because of his closeness to BC and Maurizio. “]

        How am I supposed to address that? Neither you, me, nor A-Dub are in the Board room, or wherever they design strategies. Pure speculation on A-Dub, that has more to do with the fact that he’s pissed – as are other fans for this team. Somebody has to take the heat. Maybe enough of it will affect Andrea (in a positive way).
        [” How do you explain Andrea’s nonchalant attitude towards his defensive game and the fact that as the “leader” of the team he hasn’t been able to make a difference in the win column? “]

        This one I can agree with from a different perspective. Where I differ, is I think you can change that attitude. It’s called benching – and a luxury that Jay has little of this season. I get concerned, that if you play Davis too much, we can turn him into one more talent that goes awry. Toronto – all their teams it seems – have a bad reputation for destroying their draft picks. Personally, I keep developing the team, add some veterans with something left in their tank (as Leo I think mentioned) , and stay the course.

        • Nilanka15

          It’s not speculation man. Any idiot can see Bargnani’s effort is lacking. Any idiot can see Bargnani isn’t disciplined for his defensive lapses. The entire nation can see this. A-Dub simply put it into words for us.

    • Raptor4Ever

      Great Analysis, Spot On, I really enjoyed reading it.

      To Arsenalist , Sam and … :

      Are we going to have a PODCast this year ?? Come on guys, Those were really fun to listen to on Sunday night before going to bed. I miss them and I think there are alot to talk about now. I know you guys are busy and … but make it happen.

      Who else here from old timers misses the Pod casts? Let your voices be heard 🙂

  31. Paps

    He’ll probably be benched a lot more the remainder of the season. JT is taking him out of games more now, the last 2 any ways. The problem is who is going to replace him the starting line up. It’s not going to be Davis or the new guy. The thing to do is reduce his minutes and let Davis and the other big men play more until you find a starting center. Id keep Andrea as a 6th man, he’s a bigger Barbosa, streaky shooter who can light it up now and again. There’s lots of guys like that in the league and I’m cool with that. Until the roster gets upgraded next year this is how it’s going to be.

  32. D279

    Wow !!!! the hate is getting ugly,a lot of good arguments for turfing the “big Pasta” ,we have so much time invested in #7 that it would be crazy to get rid of him now.
    We all know or should know that with a coach with a set of balls,#7 would be instructed to park his ass in the key and dont move.
    Maybe a sixth man would be the perfect new role for the big guy.
    Mr.France launching 3″s…you too can also take a seat !!!
    I agree ,when Money is on the floor it relates DD to becoming an observer.
    I would get rid of Triano ,before I give up on #7.
    Am I pissed…yup…but I truly feel,again he isn’t getting any direction whatsover,when a rookie comes into the game and launched a three,that was a telling story of what we are lacking.

    • Paps

      We had a coach like that and look what happened. I think it’s up to the players to play hard.

  33. Raptor4Ever

    This is where the problem with Toronto Raptors starts and this is where it ends and not a particular player or ….


    27. Bryan Colangelo, Toronto Raptors

    Hired: 2006.

    Coaches: Sam Mitchell (2006-2008), Jay Triano (2008-present)

    Long-term plan: Stay competitive, even if it means throwing cap flexibility into the wind.

    Draft picks: Andrea Bargnani (1st, 2006), DeMar DeRozan (9th, 2009), Ed Davis (13th, 2010),


    * 2006: Traded Charlie Villanueva to the Bucks for T.J. Ford, who was promptly given a four-year, $32 million extension.
    * 2008: Traded Ford, the rights to the 17th pick and Rasho Nesterovic’s expiring contract to the Pacers for Jermaine O’Neal (max contract until 2010)
    * 2010: Traded Hedo Turkoglo to the Suns for Leandro Barbosa and Dwyane Jones.

    Free agent signings: Chris Bosh in 2006 (three-year max contract), Jorge Garbajosa in 2006, Anthony Parker in 2006, Jason Kapono in 2007 (four years, $24 million), Jose Calderon in 2008 (five years, $45 million), Andrea Bargnani in 2009 (five years, $50 million), Turkoglu in 2009 (five years, $53 million), Jarrett Jack in 2009 (four years, $20 million), Amir Johnson in 2010 (six years and $33 million), Linas Kleiza in 2010 (four years, $20 million)

    Free agents let go: Mike James (2006), Marion (2009) Anthony Parker and Jamario Moon (both 2009).

    Many LeBron James defenders say he should have left Cleveland because his general manager, Danny Ferry, failed at surrounding him with a good supporting cast. However, the truth is that argument should hold far more water with Chris Bosh than with LeBron. Bosh is not as good as LeBron, but he’s had far less help from Bryan Colangelo, who squandered many of Bosh’s best years with impulsive decisions.

    Colangelo had a good reputation in Phoenix, but his tenure in Toronto has been abysmal. He’s has thrown money around irresponsibly, despite being given several chances at the kind of cap flexibility necessary to build a good long-term foundation. Colangelo has had cap space in 2006 and 2009 and came away with T.J. Ford and Hedo Turkoglu. He traded many key assets for an overpaid and broken-down Jermaine O’Neal, then somehow made things worse by signing Turkoglu with the money he saved by eliminating his own mistake. He’s given out long-term mid-level contracts to marginal players like Jarrett Jack, Jason Kapono and Amir Johnson. He’s overpaid his own flawed players, giving Ford a big contract despite his injury issues, Calderon a bigger contract despite his defensive problems and Bargnani an even bigger contract despite not showing he was worth it consistently. In other words, he’s the worst stereotype of the impatient GM, unwilling or unable to contain himself when he has some money in his pocket.

    But none of those issues are as damaging as his handling of Bargnani in general. While the 2006 draft wasn’t exactly full of superstars, Bargnani wasn’t even on anyone’s radar with the No. 1 pick until Colangelo began talking him up. Bargnani ultimately was a poor fit next to Bosh and played inconsistently, but that didn’t stop Colangelo from constantly defending him, firing a head coach (Sam Mitchell) who didn’t like him and giving him a big contract extension in 2009.

    The difference between Ferry and Colangelo is Ferry learned from his initial mistakes and made shrewd moves to try mitigate them, whereas Colangelo just keeps making the same mistakes over and over again. That’s why Colangelo is way down on this list.

    • RapthoseLeafs

      Okay … lets go down memory lane.

      Back in December, I don’t recall too many complaints about Bargnani’s salary. His help-defense yes, sometimes his scoring, but for the most part, what Andrea makes this year ($8.5 million) has never been a “hit the nerve” complaint. Then I read how someone thought maybe we could get someone to “just” take his salary. A salary dump, in all its’ glory.

      And I get that One does not make a majority, and that sometimes we need to reassess our assessing. But I sometimes wonder how many people would be okay with such a scenario – even if something coming back wasn’t possible, and it’s a straight salary dump. Doesn’t say much about support.
      There was also something about doing it (a trade) before Bargnani’s BYC ends (June 1st). Relatively speaking, I’m still new at this CBA shit – soon to have another probably complicated agreement to flesh out. But as I understand BYC, it simply means you can only trade for 1/2 the first year in a rookie contract extension.

      [” so this player (BYC), who actually earns $9 million, is worth $4.5 million for trading purposes.” LARRY COON’S Salary Cap FAQ ]


      [” BYC says “if you re-sign a player and give him a big raise, then for a period of time his trade value will be lower than his actual salary.” “]

      In any event, the premise was Andrea would be harder to trade at 4.25 million. But in the land of supply and demand, that doesn’t make sense. Especially if the upside is a 7 foot guy who can shoot from anywhere, and will be looking to prove it. Stick it to his old team. Personally, and this is mostly as a Leaf fan, we (this whole Toronto sphere of teams), have walked this road so often. Someone mentioned about this being the worst of the Raptors, and I have to wonder – did they forget Vince when they said such a thing. We had probably one of the best talents ever to grace a Raptor uniform …. just sitting there. And if I recall right, Mom thought he should sit wherever he pleased.

      When it comes to GM’s and their moves – like Colangelo and Bosh – you have to realize that they all make mistakes. Some get lucky – Cleveland. Some lose the luck – Cleveland. And some stand in purgatory – Raptors.

      Guys like Isiah can land you into an excruciating abyss, while others can start off with dreams, lose those dreams, but trade for more. The latter leaves one with the hope that a Boston lucky break could one day happen. That’s where BC comes in. He has made his mistakes, but he has also undone them pretty fast. Besides being tough enough to succeed outside the confines of the U.S., Colangelo has managed to over-ride the premium purchases, that go with getting them here.

      So, yes … I liked to see BC stay. It’s not because he’s stupid that we’re here. I think most people would say he’s intelligent enough. Basketball some will argue, at this moment. But in time, I think experience will temper that piss and vinegar approach that BC has had in the past. Unfortunately, and like everything else, it will probably be somewhere else.

      Seeing as hindsight is a great way to revisit history, I found myself going back 2 years, to the Jermaine trade. I started to wonder if 2 things could have occurred, instead of just one. What would 2008-09 have been like, without Chris. A combo of O’Neil & Andrea (with Jermaine as the C – to eventually be replaced with youth), and the fruits of a Bosh trade – with 2 years on his contract, and hitting his peak. Say what you want about AB, but him with a decent Center, and however many draft picks / up & coming Star produced, and the timeline certainly would have been interesting.

      • Theswirsky

        I remember a ton of arguments over Bargs salary. Its was just his ‘defenders’ that kept saying ‘no way he’s a good deal’ and ignoring everything else (like usual). People said he was a rip off when he initial signed it, and said it was a rip off all year.

        Honestly… the limited (convient memory) memory is just ridiculous.

        • Theswirsky

          I would also add:

          “Especially if the upside is a 7 foot guy who can shoot from anywhere”

          I’d change that to a 7 ft guy who can miss from anywhere… but tends to do it beyond 15ft because that takes less effort.

  34. JJ

    I don’t wanna sound racist, but please, in the 2011 NBA draft, take the black American kid…

  35. AB7

    Jesus Christ forums like this annoy me, Bargs IS playing terrible, but thers no reason to post a rant every F***** game! ‘Fans’ are supposed to support their team not pick apart every off performance by the only current threat in their team, they AND YOU cant do anything about the current roster situation, im sure the coaches know Bargs isnt on form at all this month, but theres really nothing they can do about it for now, they have to wait it out and hope for a draft pick or a decent trade, because for now we have to deal with Bargnani anyway, even the best have off days shooting, Kobe can sometimes shoot 6-26 on the LAKERS, where they have far more options available. Just get on with supporting Toronto and stop being little bitches

      • AB7

        just like Mr Beasley of Minnesota, he puts a ‘TONNE’ of effort in, yet im sure the TWolve fans dont burn him on a steak at the site of some inconsistent shooting nights

        • Nilanka15

          If they’ve been dealing with Beasley’s issues for 5 years, I’m sure they would burn him at the stake. Especially when you’ve got idiot Beasley fan boys claiming he should be an allstar, Love steals his rebounds, Ridnour doesn’t pass the ball to him, he’s still learning English, etc. etc.

    • Nilanka15

      wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait….

      …lemme get this straight…

      Kobe can have an off-shooting night, so you’re suggesting, Bargnani can also, thereby implying that Kobe and Bargnani should be treated by the same rules?

      I’ll give you a second to take back your comment before RR rips it to shreds.

  36. Dfasadfs

    The problem with Bargnani is that he’s not a winner, he doesn’t care, and if he doesn’t care about winning, then he doesn’t care about rebounding. In contrast, guys like DeMar (this should be his team now) cares about winning, you can see it on his face, on his post-game interview, etc. A key element when drafting a player is his level of swagger, his fire, and Bargnani has none of them, please go back to Italy.

  37. Cito Knickz

    i said many times you cannot have andrea’s worth ethic rubbing off the other guys…trade him now because you will never win with him

  38. Valit

    The Trade of AB will NOT solve the problem unless we are bringing somebody much better ( not a mediocre player with lots of energy because that wont cut it). It’s absolutely true that AB plays terrible defense and had hit a stone wall shooting wise but you lose as a team not as an individual.He makes more money that every one of us can dream of but so are other hundreds of overpaid egos. You can trade him or you can keep him….the problems lie with THE ORGANIZATION. Fans seem to be satisfied with blue collar mediocre players..that’s not NBA..that’s playground basketball. NBA more than anything, is catered towards stars ( 1 or 2 preferably) surrounded by “useful” components. Raptors dont have any of this recipe…nada…nothing.
    If you want to blame somebody ( even though I dont know what the point will be), blame MLSE ..it’s their product and as I said before their goal is not the same as ours.

    • Nilanka15

      Nobody is suggesting that solving the Raptors’ problems is a 1-step procedure involving trading Bargnani.

      Instead, Bargnani is one of many pieces that need to go before we become competitive again. The difference between Bargnani compared to DeRozan, Bayless, Davis, etc. is that Bargnani has been in the league for 5 years and has shown minimal improvement in important positional characteristics (i.e. defense, rebounding, taking charges, etc.), while the other kids still have time to improve. If they don’t, then they need to go too.

      This isn’t a Bargnani hate-fest. It’s just that Bargnani happened to be the first player to reach the “evaluation finish line”.

  39. FAQ


    Bargs has gotten as good or bad as he can be, and now he needs to play on a team that can use his talents … which most certainly is NOT the Ratpors filled with scrubs and rookies..!!!

    • Nilanka15

      So you’re saying, Bargnani’s pulling a Vince Carter. Gotcha. Hate for Bargs, validated.

  40. RapsM

    Anyone who thinks everyone’s comments are “hating on Bargnani” doesn’t know that a good 70-80% of Raptor fans can’t stand him. Stop protecting him. His best games can’t compare to the stinkers he seems to put up at least twice a week.

  41. KJ-B

    THe Divorce between #7 and the Toronto Raptors is going down… Love him or hate him, it’s going down. TALK DONE.

  42. Mike D

    GM Colangelo. Oh the teams you have built. I was going to wait until the end of the year to say – “I told you so.” But why wait?

    Raptor Nation, you need to stop hating on the Raptor players. They are substitutes forced into starters roles. It isn’t their fault “The Architect” decided to pay them like starters. When you put ordinary guys out in front of the League’s elite, night after night, what the hell do you expect to see? Grace and consistency?

  43. Balls of Steel

    I love it when fans defend a player that cannot defend. That is sweet irony if there is ever one.

  44. Mellon13

    I will agree that barns needs to get traded or come off the bench. Amir tries on d every night and yes he gets quick fouls sometimes, but how the hell can you be 7ft and average 5.7 rebounds a game and barns doesn’t get fouls cuz he doesn’t try and defend. D Wade averages more boards then barns thats sad,even jose had 9 rebounds last night and barns was out rebounded by every raptor in the starting lineup. Any barns fan on here needs to watch an entire game and see how poorly he plays on defense, and if he is injured then sit his ass on the bench and let our hungrier guys play.

    • Warpjv

      agree he plays bad defence — but if we ever get a good coach, one with a spine and some intensity and leadership skills, just sit back and watch: Bargnani and everyone elese would really start to pick it up on the defensive end (except amir and ed who do okay already). right now we are just a helter skelter team of body parts in search of a head.

      • Nilanka15

        No coach can help Bargnani’s defense. Not in a million years. You can bring in Van Gundy, Riley, Popovich, Sloan, Rivers, Jackson, Auerbach….it ain’t gonna help one bit. Bargnani cannot defend or rebound. Period.

        • FAQ

          Are you suggesting that Bargnani is one big Italian defensive dimwit … because if you are you are partly right and partly wrong. Yes, Andrea the Giant tries to play defense, but he thinks too slowly .. something that is common to 7 foot men … their feet are very far away from their brainlets … they are just plain slow slow slow at moving their bulk … can’t be helped.

          Name a big defensive centre that could be available to the Raptori, other than Evans.

  45. Nilanka15

    No word of exaggeration, watching Bargs play this season has been MORE frustrating than watching Turkoglu last season (but this could be heightened by the fact that the fanboys seem to defend Bargs more when he plays worse).

    Bargnani sucks.

  46. FAQ

    Da Homie Boyz in da hood .. versus .. Italian tribal honking fans who attend Raptori games at the ACC …. LOL

    • Suds

      There are a lot of problems on this team. Bottom line, the team is shitty. There simply is not enough talent, or even 1 complete player (someone that can play on both sides of the court). No one on our team is a starter on a +.500 ball club.
      I think the reason most of the people that are harping on AB’s terrible game, is that he was our #1 overall pick, and we so desperately want him to succeed. His lack of defensive ability, makes him a liability that no championship team can ever sustain. My gripe with Andrea is the lack of improvement or semblance of one into trying to improve his defensive game. Even AB fans, have already admitted that he may have some short comings on the defensive end. Since there are no signs of improvement in his weaker areas, it frustrates many fans, and are focusing on him. Other players have shown signs of improvement:
      + Amir has reduced the rate of fouls that he picks up. His minutes are up. His jump shot is improving. His free throws have gotten better
      + DDR has become more aggressive offensively, and is showing minuscule improvements in his defensive game
      + Ed Davis is learning the game. His small number of games is too small a sample to effectively evaluate him

      Areas where players have not improved/or show signs that they are working on it:
      – Bargnani defense
      – Bayless still learning how to pass? Still learning Jay Triano’s complex system? Still learning how to stop after he puts his head down, and decides to go to the rim?
      – Linas Kleisa? 3 pointers. He takes a lot, but does he work hard on improving them. Staying after practice and shooting 100s of threes?
      – Sonny Weems. Defense?
      – Julian Wright. Jump Shot
      – Jose Calderon. Rotating fast enough to cover the help defender’s man/ or perimeter player

      Having 5, 1 way players on the starting line-up is not a recipee for success. We can have Andrea as a starter if we have 3 good palyers + 1 extra-ordinary defensive player. As it stands no one on this team is a good enough defensive player, that can play man to man defense in this league without any help defense. And that includes Julian Wright.

      Trying to improve, and sharpen your skills as players, or in any workplace is the recipee to success. Raw talent can get you far, but without hardwork, and working on your deficiencies means you will stagnate. Perhaps that is another reason why there are so many people who do not approve of Bargnani. He was sold as the “go” to guy for this franchise by management, atleast for this year. However his effort level, and inconsistency is proving contrary to what they are selling.

      I will wait to see how things pan out next year. If there is no improvement in the mindset of the team, I will finally get of this wagon. I have been supporting this team since its inception, this is by far the worst effort I have seen this team play. I know losing me as a fan is not important in the bottom line, but atleast I will be happy rooting for a team, that plays defense. I am a consumer, and I am frustrated enough that I am willing to change the product that I buy. I honestly didnt believe I would be in this position at the 20 game mark.

      • The Tyrant

        Totally agree.

        But there is no way Bargs SHOULD be a starter with the type of defensive effort he puts. By now, he should have figured what most leaders on teams do when they’re in a slump: let your defensive get you back into the game.

        If your main guy can’t get his game on, he should at least get his defense game on. Guys like Bill Russell, Garnett, Magic, Pipen: when they sucked at shooting, they damn well made sure the guy their guarding sucked too.

        I teach kids basketball and the #1 thing I teach is the athletes ready position. I was embarrassed while sitting watching the game with my 8 yr old since the raps defense was totally at odds with some basic basketball skills that we teach Grade 2-3 ers.

        How many times have i ever seen Bargs is the athletes ready position this year?

  47. FAQ

    Barg-haters are gonna lynch him … after they finish tar and feathering him … go figure …!!!!

  48. Krespino

    The Raptors will never become legitimate under any conditions… With or without Bargnani or anybody else. The Raptors are the worst franchise in the NBA, in the sense that they are the only one that don’t care about losing. The owners are not unhappy about the present situations, because they’re still making money. They are happy about the GM and the coach. You couldn’t find that in any other francn the sense that they are the only franchise thatdefinitely the most boring to watch. Lacking every kind of will and drive to win. The queer thing is, the franchise owners are not unhappy with the situation, with constantly being the losers. They’re happy with the GM, with the coach. You couldn’t find that any other place. Nobody really cares about losing. I just can’t see how a true bball lover could be a fan of that franchise of that mentality. No hope for the Raptors. I’m sure Bargnani would be happy leaving.

    • WhatWhat

      Bargnani regarding the Raptors after signing his extension: “Other than the money – that’s very important for me of course – but I’m very happy to be here in Toronto. I love the city, I love the fans, I’m happy here. Very satisfied. […] This is what I wanted from the beginning. I love to stay here [in Toronto]. Everything went very fast, that’s good also to play for the national team because tomorrow I am going to join my national team.”


      So you’re not a Raptor fan, but a Bargnani fan first, huh? But I doubt that too, since any true, objective fan of Bargnani would be disappointed in him and also be demanding that he plays better, because he surely can, rather than deflecting all of the blame to the anonymous owner and the GM that believed in him far more than anyone else.

      • Krespino

        Seriously? Is that your understanding of basketball? Do you know of any individual in the whole history of the world who spoke differently? Someone who said “I am not happy being here, I hate the city and the fans…” just after signing a contract??
        I am not a fan of the Raptors of course, since I like to watch exciting bball and the Raptors are probably the only team in the NBA that doesn’t produce that. Watching even the Sacramento Kings or the Wizards or the Clippers is more satisfying. Although the Raptors have some valuable players like Barbosa Kleiza the winning spirit is lacking. Anonymous owner? Are you unable to understand that I am referring to MLSE who are the owners of the Raptors? The team’s standing is, what, .270 and the owners are happy with that, with the GM and the coach…Only in Toronto… What if you get a lottery pick, the guy will be wasted in that franchise. Rebuilding?? With that management and mentality? A joke…Other teams will probably rise but you are doomed to stand around the worst five teams in th NBA, with the present mentality.

  49. Krespino

    You Raptors fans will always need one player to hate on, to make a scapegoat. Last year it was Turkoglu, this year maybe Bargnani. Another European. If need be it would be Kleiza. It never comes to your mind that the real problem could be with the management and the coach.The franchise stands as among the very worst, and yet the owners of the franchise are not unhappy with the situation, they say they like the GM and the coach. Because they are making money. Why not wonder what makes Bargnani just unwilling to try his best? I’m pretty sure Bargnani wants to leave, and again pretty sure he would perform differently and better elsewhere. The whole mentality is wrong with the Raptors franchise and that situation would surely not motivate a significant player. When there is no will or drive to win in the franchise ownership and when the GM can be considered successful in spite of the clear disaster, in spite of all the money spent and the players added, why should Bargnani feel excited and motivated? The Raptors will only play with the worst players; all good players will insist to get away as early as possible.

    • Nilanka15

      You make no sense. Last year’s team was a good one. How do you explain Bargnani’s complete lack of motivation last year?

      And claiming we’re the among the worst franchises is just retarded. Again, would you have said that last year about this team? I highly doubt it. Doesn’t the cap space, and multiple upcoming picks provide us with some hope? Would you trade us for the Clippers, Wolves, Warriors, Kings, Cavs, or Nets? Again, I highly doubt it. Stop talking outta your ass.

      • Krespino

        Face reality; all those teams have hopes, but your team doesn’t; each of them is in rebuilding process and getting better every year (except the Cavs) but yours is getting worse. Kings have a bright future, Nets have an ambitious owner that obviously is determined to spend and change the present situation. Clippers, Warriors? No comparison; I can’t see talent in the Raptors comparable to Griffin, Eric Gordon, Curry, Ellis…No Kevin Love in the Raptors. The Cavs were among the strongest teams in the NBA until less than a year ago. The bad thing about the Raptors is that they have a decent revenue position, better than at least half the NBA I guess, and they still can not perform. The management of your team simply do not seem to be knowing what they’re doing. Rebuilding is not a thing that happens by itself; and from what your team has accomplished last couple of years, a rebuilding is definitely not there. The present roster is not that bad, but the desire to win is not there, team chemistry is not there. Everyone seems to be concerned with getting his pay only, nothing else, including MLSE.

        • Nilanka15

          Although the Raptors haven’t experienced much success over the last few years, we’ve only been “rebuilding” since the Bosh sign-and-trade (in other words, less than a year). It’s far too early to claim absolutes at such an early stage of the transformation.

          And although I agree money is the biggest motivator for MLSE, even the fat cats up there realize that developing brand loyalty is the fastest way to profits. And you can’t do that without playoff success.

          We’re talking about the youngest team in the league (ignoring Reggie). Give it a moment to breathe before prematurely deciding to pull the plug. After this summer, Toronto will have their own future superstar to include in your list above.