The loss last night was almost inevitable, with a superior, healthy team fighting for a playoff spot coming into town against the Raptors.

The Raptors? Inferior in talent, pretty banged up at this point AND having recently embarrasses this same team on their home court not too long ago.

Despite that, the team characteristically hung tough by playing just enough defense and winning the 3-point battle handily for the first 3 quarters. Fittingly, an Andre Iguodala three-ball midway through the 4th quarter capped off a big 76ers run to make it a 20-point lead and Solomon Alabi started feeling that itch and slowly came to his senses. As AltRaps so poignantly points out in the Roll Call… “It was one of those nights”.

Some takeaways from the game, as we saw a little more of some of the 10-day contractors, or “lottery tickets” as most astute observers describe:

Justin Dentmon looks like he’s got the size and speed to be an NBA point, but just hasn’t shown any aggressiveness other than some impressive looking spins that amounted to blocked shots. He lacks a lot of polish.

Alan Anderson shows flashes of athletic ability, but for all the “veteran savvy” that guys like Leo Rautins profess he has, he doesn’t average an assist in 20 min/game and is shooting under 44%. No thanks, we already have a shooting guard who shoots a mediocre percentage and doesn’t know how to pass.

The problem with Bryan Colangelo is that he thinks he can find a diamond in the rough like he arguably did with Jamario Moon. He looks for the same thing in these guys that scouts look for in high-school players. Raw physical ability. But the problem is that even high-schoolers with raw talent don’t amount to much, like the Stromile Swifts of this world. And then he expects to find someone in their mid-twenties to blossom with that kind of profile? Smells like desperation to me.

If there’s one league in this world where guys don’t come out nowhere, this is it. Jeremy Lin’s story, however incomplete it is right now, is so rare NBA people were having trouble remembering the last time something like that happened. It just doesn’t happen and it’s almost insulting the fanbase, especially when TV commentators keep pumping these guys up.

Well, Ed Davis is not on a 10-day contract, but you might as well lump him in. He had a solid game today and if the GM is in love with athleticism, did he Ed Davis today? The one dunk he had from almost the free-throw line off a nice feed from Dentmon should have caught his eye. There’s this stat that I like to use, rebound percentage, that takes out a lot of the noise (pace, other teams field goal %, MINUTES) that distorts stats like rebounds/game. Ed Davis is at 17.1% Let me show you what that number means:

Total Rebound Pct
1. Dwight Howard-ORL 21.8
2. DeMarcus Cousins-SAC 20.0
3. Andrew Bynum-LAL 19.3
4. Kevin Love-MIN 19.0
5. Kris Humphries-NJN 18.5
6. Tim Duncan-SAS 18.4
7. Greg Monroe-DET 18.3
8. DeAndre Jordan-LAC 18.0
9. Joakim Noah-CHI 17.9
10. Blake Griffin-LAC 17.9
11. Ersan Ilyasova-MIL 17.5
12. Tyson Chandler-NYK 17.3
13. Marcin Gortat-PHO 17.1
14. Roy Hibbert-IND 16.6
15. Zaza Pachulia-ATL 16.4
16. Serge Ibaka-OKC 16.1
17. Carlos Boozer-CHI 16.1
18. Al Jefferson-UTA 15.9
19. Josh Smith-ATL 15.8
20. Pau Gasol-LAL 15.7

Ed Davis is not on that list because he didn’t qualify for NBA Reference’s minutes-played criteria. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2012_leaders.html)

The kid is an elite rebounder that has shown some offensive ability without probably many plays called for him.

Free Ed Davis for the rest of the season, and see what he can do before Jonas Valunciunas comes in and turns into a real numbers game.

  • Nilanka15

    With Bargnani in town, Davis is destined for the bench anyway.  So pumping up his stats will, at the very least, boost his trade value this summer.

    • Theswirsky

      Its more than a bit disappointing that in a year where this team was supposed to be evaluating talent, Ed Davis got so little time.

      When he did play, during the first half of the season he got stuck beside 2 chuckers in Bayless and Barbossa, 2nd half of the season he gets stuck beside d-leaguers and Forbes.

      Assuming Jose isn’t sidelined for the rest of the season, I’d really like to see Ed start and play 30+ minutes a game with Jose running the offense

      • Nilanka15

        In general, I’m not very impressed with what I’ve seen from the team this year.  The overall effort level, and defensive improvements are welcome, but from an individual perspective, I was hoping that a clear core of players would establish themselves from the rest.  IMO, that hasn’t happened, and we’ll go into the off-season with just as many questions as we had at the start of the season.  And I’m not sure I trust Colangelo to make tough decisions looking 3-5 years into the future (as opposed to the quick fix).

        • CJT

          I disagree, I think that the fact that a core hasn’t emerged as hoped is very indicitave and that the evaluation period this year has been fruitful.  It is disappointing that the players we hoped would emerge as core pieces didn’t, but I think they answered a lot of questions.  That maybe the core that we hoped for isn’t strong enough and some moves need to be made. 

          • Nilanka15

            It may have answered a lot of questions, or it may simply prolong Colangelo’s “evaluation” period into next year, which would extend the misery for us fans.

          • Destro

            SPIN CITY :

            Couldnt one say the fact there is no core here,attribute that to the evaluation process being terrible…You drafted and signed these players to be your core and it turns out its crap,what does that say about your ability to evaluate NBA talent and young players?

            • CJT

              Ya, that is what i was trying to say.  That the core we hoped would emerge hasn’t and that moves will have to be made.

        • Theswirsky

          I think it became abundantly obvious as the season progressed that BC had his ‘core’ in place and nothing was going to change that.  In the end:

          Demar was exactly what we thought he was – a SG who can’t shoot, defend or handle the ball
          Andrea was exactly what we thought he was – a big who spends way too much time taking jumpshots, can’t defend and won’t rebound

          But ofcourse that hardly matters because they are BC’s guys and its going to take nothing short of someone coming in and dropping a superstar performance to change that.

          “I’m not sure I trust Colangelo to make tough decisions looking 3-5 years into the future (as opposed to the quick fix).”

          I can say I didn’t trust him coming into this season, and this year has only reinforced that mistrust.

          This team is going to need JV or whatever pick they make to be superstar worthy in order to push BC’s crappy core players to the periphery of this team where they belong. 

          • Nilanka15

            Yup, that’s basically what it comes down to:  Bargnani and DeRozan.  Complimentary pieces (with MANY holes in their games) being viewed as “core” players.

          • Lorenzo

             I agree, the Raptors have an awful ‘core’, probably the worst in the league as it’s filled with mediocre tweeners.

      • sleepz

        Makes no sense.

        Perhaps Casey is not a fan of his game but if the team invested a lottery pick in him and this is an “evaluation” year why would he not play more often?

        Johnson and Bayless got plently of burn this year. Alan Anderson is playing consistent minutes for goodness sake.

        Not sure why Davis gets very little opportunities from his coach.

        As a conspricay theorist I would argue the GM wants to ensure there is no debate on who plays the 4. lol

        • Destro

          That last sentence is dead ass right….He doesnt and didnt want anyone to challenge what was already in place ultimately his legacy here (LAFF) is tied to that….

          • CJT

            There is no debate that Ed is a far superior defender/rebounder but regardless of what you think about AB, Davis is terrible on the offensive end.  I am not trying to compare the two or stick up for AB, I am saying all on his own regardless of who else is on the team ED has got no offensive game and I think that is a problem.

            • Raps4Ever

              Actually, though ED’s certainly a better rebounder, his defense is far from superior. Sadly, it’s mostly inferior at this point. I think he has the ability to greatly improve if he focuses as Casey’s team coaches, but it’s far from NBA adequate right now. The game appears too fast for him and he’s like a deer caught in the headlights most of the time.

              • CJT

                Yes, I can certainly see your point.  I think his defensive ability is greater though, in that he blocks shots etc.  He is pretty sloppy right now and at times looks like he is new on the team and doesn’t know the proper places to be.

        • Brian B

           “Not sure why Davis gets very little opportunities from his coach.”

          Well, often it is because he is in foul trouble. He doesn’t know how to defend without fouling. The rest of the time, it is because he is deservedly in the doghouse for lack of effort or concentration. His defensive rotations are poor – he consistently is seen standing there as the play unfolds around him. he similarly is clueless in the half court offensive. he needs to learn how to set a pick. Because Amir does all these things better, Amir gets the playing time. It isn’t about evaluation, it is about making him work harder in practice and the off season to grow. he also has a reputation as not listening to the coaches, though who knows if that is true.

          • Destro

            So Ed takes dumb fouls and then use Amir as your player ref…guess what Amir isthe worst in the league at taking dumb fouls on BOTH ends…

          • sleepz

            What about the starters that get big minutes that don’t defend, have poor defensive rotations, lack concentration and effort, don’t set proper picks AND they are veterans?

            • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

              39 minutes 1 rebound……smdh

          • Steve

            Are you sure that you’re talking about the right guy,that discription seems to fit the guy that Ed is backing up.

      • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

        Same as last season- evaluating talent yet Jose is starting at pg instead of JB late in last season.

        PR spins in the wind- actions speak louder than BC’s words….

        • CJT

          Evaluating doesn’t mean starting.  You can evaluate talent and ability regardless of whether a player comes off the bench.  JB has had plenty of court time this season. 

  • ianeck_52

    I agree about Ed Davis. If this season is about player development, I thought he would have been seeing more playing time. The guy missed half of last season, and has yet to have an NBA training camp. If he’s going to improve, he’s gotta get more time. We already know what Amir Johnson can bring to the table, so for the rest of the season (especially if Bargnani is out) I’d like to see Ed get a lot of minutes and show us what he’s got

    • Brian B

       see my comments above… PT needs to be earned. It isn’t development to keep sending him out to perpetuate bad habits.

      • Theswirsky

        then explain Bargnani?

        • Nilanka15

          Bargnani’s had his own set of rules since he was drafted.  We all know that 😉

          • Theswirsky

            he always does

        • mountio

          Bargnani is 10 times the player Ed is (all flaws, of which I admit there are plenty) considered. Thats why he gets PT and Ed doesnt .. its really that simple

          • Theswirsky

            I really wish it was only that simple but anyone who takes the rose coloured glasses off for a second or two realizes it isn’t. 

  • DC

    BC is too scared to start ed and give him the 6-7 year rope he gave to Bargs his n0.1 pick. ED can be an elite rebounder in the league. Dude just has a real nose for the ball. Ill take 10-15 boards a night with about 10 points over 20 and 4 rebs any night. 

    • CJT

      The problem is that he hasn’t consistently shown the desire to put the effort in.  I like ED and hope that can find a way to keep him, but I don’t think he proved that he is a key part of the core going forward.  I do think he needs a bit more time to develop and we should give him that time.  We will see.

    • cesco

      Andrea value to this team is much more than the 19.5/5.5 stat and being the primary scoring option . It is one on one defense , spreading the floor , going to the FT line ( # 3 in FT average among PF’s behind Love and Dirk and #2 in FT% behind Dirk ) . In other words scoring is only one reason why he is their best player . The team is around # 13 in the league in rebounds so rebounding  is not a problem at all . When the haters say that he is one dimensional , they show they are too stupid to comprehend what this game is about .

      • Destro

        Stop giving everybodys rebounds to him….Its this type of coddling of a player that doesnt allow fans as yourself clarvoyance to make valuable and constructive opinions relating to this team…

        Where does HE rank amongst rebounds among PFs and Cs ? Sorry IT matters…its a reflection of bigger issues relating to SAID player…Nobody wants to here you talk about comprehension when you cant even simply understand THAT friend…

        His value to this team is exactly 19/5….and that is evidenced in the win column and lack of team progression as a functioning unit and as a team moving up the standings…

        To argue ones value is higher while looking at the obvious facts is just utter stupidity and lack of comprehension of what THIS game is about as you said… 

  • Raps4Ever

    Big talk of ED due to his impressive 13 & 13 game. To the same people who are all over AB’s offense not being worth it because of his defense, I say how about paying attention to ED’s defense, last night or any game this season. He makes AB’s defense look good! You wonder why he hasn’t gotten more minutes, when a primary focus from this coach was to instill defensive mentality? Rebounds aren’t worth shit if both offense and defense games are sorely lacking.

    • Destro

      Bargs D is horrible against anyones period…Anybody who simply shuffles his feet even if he’s doing nothing more than a 2 step to the beat of Hall & Oates I cant go for that in the lane is still doing more than AB who simply stands still and waves his arms like he were at a rap concert…

      He hasnt gotten time because the coaching staff has made a mistake,truth is you cant sit here and say his mins were a result of his D or enigmatic offense because in a nutshell thats what 90% of this team has been on both ends this season…

      Casey and mgmt made a mistake in not playing him in what we all knew was going to be a losing season…Now its on to year 3 and they STILL arent sure what to do with him going into next season with new players coming in and its because they didnt give themselves a good opportunity THIS season to evaluate him….

      a clear mistake…you have guys here who i think would excel on other teams that would use him better and Davis is one of them….In terms of offense i think there are stagnant players here caught on a team that is committed to playing a 2man game that doesnt net positive win results…. 

  • Bendit

    The eyetest here says there seems to be no urgency in his game. Moreso because he is not a starter and plays 20 some mins. I believe the bb term is “no motor”. This was confirmed during the half time chat one of the coaches has with Leo & Devlin when the obligatory “what has the team to do in the second half”. ED’s name was brought up I guess because of his energetic first half…and Roth’s reply was that the coaching staff have been encouraging  ED to up his motor all of the time (paraphrase).  

  • sleepz

    “especially when tv commentators keep pumping these guys up”

    +1

    It makes the games even more unwatchable. From players playing “at all-star levels” (how do you actually determine that anyway?) to the “solid 10-day contract transactions” everything is forever rosy in Raptorland.

    It’s a huge insult to the fans to try and sugarcoat doo-doo. I’ll be glad when Colangelo is eventually gone as this is the culture that has been established in his regime.

    • Theswirsky

      I remember Jack going on a rant after the 2008/09 season about the team playing without passion and heart.  I remember Jack during 2009/10 season calling out Bosh for allowing others to get into his head and not giving it the effort he was before.  I remember Jack calling players out during individual games, pointing out their weaknesses no matter who they were.

      I used to respect Jack because, while he was annoying, he didn’t seem to be bent over taking whatever offering BC happened to be whipping out at the time.

      This year he’s just another Leo Rautins suckling at the teet that is Byran Colangelo’s genius.

      • sleepz

        He lost his edge and he likes his job. Now that they are on skid row it seems like they don’t want to kick the team (and GM) when they are down. I don’t need announcers to be as critical as I am, but they should speak the truth and be objective.

        The tip-toeing around Bryan Colangelo is the most disturbing thing to me. No original thought. No contrasting opinions. It’s all good around here! Burgeoning all-NBA type performers getting the valuable game experience they need in order to take over the league in a few years. A wealth of young talent “growing together” to form a core group of players that will contend in the near future. A young potential Hall-of Famer coming to the team next year who is going to be as strong as He-Man as indicated by the training regimen in his 3 part special.

        I am just waiting for the team wrap-up this year to here about all of the superb development and evaluation that occured and that if we didn’t have injuries we would have made the playoffs.

    • cesco

      Colangelo is not gone yet . It will all depend on what happens next season . Reaching the playoffs should be a minimum requirement for him to stay .

      • Theswirsky

        Reaching the playoffs should have no impact on whether he stays or goes.  Its how he does or doesn’t do it that should matter.

        If he doesn’t reach the playoffs because he guts the team and actually starts a rebuild he may be worth keeping.

        If he reaches the playoffs because he goes out and spends on a veteran FA or two, or trades some young guys for experience he should be gone.

        • Nilanka15

          +1 

          Bang on.

        • Destro

          If he guts the team then he should be gone as well…He’s already gutted this roster a few times and what he did with it didnt work…If he guts the team to start over again wouldnt that be admitting his rebuild was fraudulent and he didnt draft well or bring in those players to accentuate that rebuild ? If so shouldnt we in that scenario cut the ties clean off and re start with a new GM ?

          He says he’s rebuilding RIGHT NOW if he guts THIS rebuild then theres no need to let him start anythign new….MLSE is a bunch of idiots if they allow it to continue beyond that….

           

          • Theswirsky

            he hasn’t gutted this team ever.  He’s gotten rid or moved some the non-primary players, sometimes lots of them.  But the core guys always stayed the same… except for Bosh who choose to leave.

            • Destro

              Yes he guttted two times…when you turn over a roster of 5 or more players in an off season thats gutting a roster regardless of “core” players and ESP in this case because those players were not “CORE” anything…They were just best of a shitty bunch that he banked on being more…..turning over this roster save AB and Calderon this year would be gutting it again….Were not talking about MIA keeping Big 3 and re upping with bums…
              Were talking gutting a starting unit and bench on a bad team,quite a difference when you consider the personnel and how the lineups changed on a like i said a team who outside of Bosh had no stand out players…

              • Theswirsky

                Clearly we define ‘gutting’ as two seperate things.  You see it as lots of change, I see it as changing the core.

                • Destro

                  I dont think this team had a real core…i think roster turn over is gutting a team esp when alot of the talent is the same or interchangeable….

                • Theswirsky

                  the team didn’t have a good core I agree… but that was or is the core regardless.

                • CJT

                  Exactly, whether you like the players or not, they are the core of the team.

                • Destro

                  NO…subjective term..core is a group you can build around that has potential…

                • CJT

                  Exactly, what do you think management thinks of the players you so often trash?  So whether you like them or not, the team considers those guys the core.  Whether they have the talent to be going forward or not the team sees those guys as the core and has said so at basically every presser for the last two years.

      • sleepz

        I didn’t assume he was gone yet but every employee is hired to eventually be fired…..unless of course you think he will be the GM until he retires or dies?

        I do think that after reviewing his current 7 year legacy the possibilities of him losing his job is increasing.

        I also don’t think the Raps making the playoffs should be a requirement for him staying at all. In fact, if they make the playoffs next year chances are they didn’t “rebuild” in a way that will have any sustainability moving forward.

  • c_bcm

    “he problem with Bryan Colangelo is that he thinks he can find a diamond
    in the rough like he arguably did with Jamario Moon… And then he expects to find someone in their mid-twenties to blossom
    with that kind of profile? Smells like desperation to me.”

    Dunno about that. Anthony Parker was a pretty good pick up. Jorge Garbojosa. Picking guys up at this point in the season is a great way to find talent outside the league. Plus, as a vigilent member of the Tank Nation army, I can’t help but think this is quite intentional.

    • Destro

      problem with that is Moon wasnt no diamond he was a bum…AP and Garbajosa are irrelevant in the timeline of raptor history….

      • c_bcm

        The questions isn’t if they are relevant to Raptor history to not. The question is whether or not its worth going through this process in the first place. I think it is, for the examples given above.

        • Destro

          There irrelevancy means your overstating them as “good pick ups” in a terms of crediting his ability to find outside talent is quite exaggerated…

          • c_bcm

            You think Anthony Parker is and always has been an irrelevant NBA player? He’s old as sh!t now, but he was good. Moon was crap, but certainly NBA bench (deep on the pine) level. Sample size on Garbo is a bit small, but most people would agree that he was at least 1st or 2nd big off the bench of a quality team.

            BC isn’t looking for starters here. Just guys who deserve a chance. The other advantage is you get hungry guys coming in to push the current players for playing time and keep (internal) competition throughout the last dregs of the season.

            • Destro

              If he was that good he wouldnt have had to play his prime in the euro league…

  • j bean

    The best thing this season gave the Raptors was a coach who has what it takes to respectfully hold players accountable to a strong theme. I can see a better year for him coming up.
    The evaluations and who they want to go forward with have been made.
    The rest of this year is just practise time to work on weaknesses.  

  • NyAlesund

    There are a lot of AB’s haters. He deserves this for what he has done during his career. But I really make a fatigue to understand why we don’t want to see his improvements. Every time I’m reading a discussion about rebs, his notorious incapacity to grab more than 5/6 a game, but only a few times I have had a pleasure to read his improvements about his defence. Not only from him. The stats prove this.

    Now, the situation is clearly: BC has to decide what he wants to do with the ‘core’. If he consider them good, the next step will be to improve the roster with a good pieces otherwise everyone is expendable for a good trade. AB first.

    I have a question: how many PF in this league are very consistent defensively? I am not talking about the rebs but the ability to defend.

    • MAS11

       When Bargnani is excused from playing defense and rebounding it becomes challenging for Casey (or any other coach for that matter) to maintain his authority and legitimacy if he doesn’t/can’t hold Bargnani accountable (and holds others accountable in parallel). It leads to immediate chemistry issues and fissures within the team. It’s simple human nature. If Ed Davis or JJ (or Jonas next year for that matter) bust their buts on D and to grab boards and make sacrifices and then they watch Bargnani get the prima dona treatment, it will eventually lead to said players “checking out”, going rogue (i.e. going after their individual agendas with an aim to getting a good contract somewhere else) and/or chemistry breakdowns within the team. 

      • Destro

        This is a great post and speaks volumes to body language i have seen with certain players on the floor this season…Davis,JJ,DeMar many times have had indfiferent interaction with the coaches and other players on this team that arent not held accountable by the coaches or mgmt….I made reference to how guys do not pay attention to Jose when he tries to assert himself in huddles and tries to bark out instruction same with bargs…

        Ed Davis sees these guys not being held accountable for not doing things and it creates player/player divides and player/coach divides when HE is then yanked from the game for things other guys are not getting pulled for…

        I mentioned this many times this season….Why i say the accountability term is just a parrot talk point,its not enforced….and you can tell by body language of certain players there is resentment….

        • j bean

          I have to agree with other players tuning Jose and Andrea out when they are trying to give instruction to the young guys. I don’t blame them. Neither one of them commands respect as a leader. Bargs could lead by example if his game was consistently good but it isn’t. Jose tries to fire up the team with energetic hand claps and constant chatter but again he just doesn’t have the presence to capture the attention of his team. They need improvement in their own game before they start giving advice to others.  

          • Destro

            I think its a combo of they are not respected as players by the rest of the team cuz they really havent achieved anything as individuals and the fact they are exempt from this so called accountability that everyone else is being held too…..

            • Raps4Ever

              You and others saying they’re not being held accountable this year, and not respected by the rest of the team, are talking out of your asses.

              • j bean

                As a tandem that has been together for six years they have accomplished what? Yes they start in the NBA and that alone carries a certain amount of weight but do you think the young guys coming to the Raptors look at them as someone they hope to emulate?  

                • Raps4Ever

                  That’s neither of the points I was responding to, but if I responded that I know one way or the other to that, I’d also being talking out of my butt.

                • CJT

                  I certainly understand your point, but who the F are Demar or Ed or JJ to judge anyone’s achievements.  They haven’t earned a thing with their own play yet.  They all coasted through highschool and college ball with crap fundamentals and no one was able to motivate them to make changes to their technique.  If they are not motivated to play hard on their own regardless of the perceived treatment for AB you speak of then aren’t they just a bunch of Vince Carter’s in training.  Great players are self motivated.  Look at Durant who played on 2 or 3 20 win teams but didn’t let that affect his development.  I have to call B.S. on your argument in that if there is preferential treatment happening (and I am not saying there is, because the sources of this information are not reliable when it comes to objectively evaluating the players you are talking about) players worth keeping would continue to work hard to improve regardless.

                • Destro

                  You missed the point,Point is Calderon and AB are considered by you to be the leaders on this team by there status and seniority on the team and the point made is they arent respected by the younger group,and some of that discontent is clearly because they are not held to the same accountability standard that keeps being talked about by the coach and GM….If your supposed leaders arent held to this standard you cant expect the rest of the team to follow suit… 

                • Raps4Ever

                  The point is you and some others are so fn full of yourselves that you actually think your mind reading skills, while watching a game you don’t even understand on TV, are factual information.

                • Destro

                  Nah some ppl just arent blind like you and know what they’re watching..when i see Jose trying to instruct Demar on defense and DD is lokoing the other way not even acknowledging him in any way and then joking with an opponent,that speaks to what im saying…..but since your a biased fan who loves to argue you gon pretend it dont happen…..

                • CJT

                  You know, I can say that I haven’t seen this, but I am not saying it doesn’t happen because it probably does.  My point is that DD, JJ, ED and who ever else you are talking about are in no position to ignore advice from anyone about their weak play.  That is not the kind of player you want on the roster, DD finished 2nd in a dunk contest and that’s his whole professional resume.  I hope he can improve but I have to say I hate the kind or crap you are talking about between teammates.

                • Destro

                  yes but those guys have been in the league 2 yrs they arent going to take advice from “vets” on the team who are considered lousy and no accomplishments themselves….

                • Raps4Ever

                  Tell us when that happened, so we can for ourselves, or stop making shit up to support your bullchit mind reading.

                • Destro

                  I could tell you 100 times and you wouldnt get it…

                • Raps4Ever

                  Once

                • CJT

                  No I got the point.  And I can agree that there has been some preferential treatment in both cases.  the fact is they ARE the best players on the team.  That doesn’t make them great players but they are better than the rest of the team.  My point was if players are using AB as an excuse to coast through games and not improve through effort Ef them.  Great players work hard no matter what.

                • Destro

                  Well i disagree that Jose is 1 of the 2 best players on this team,i think some of this teammates dispute both of there status as well which leads to some of these awkward moments i see on the floor during TO’s…

        • Raps4Ever

          You say a post claiming ED busts his butt on D (actually makes Bargnani’s D look good) and unbelievably inconsistent JJ, that needs his mom to give him a slap across the head when he smirks while playing like shit, are being influenced by AB’s accountability, is a “great post”? I wish I could say you have to be kidding, but I know you’re not. You’re actually that much of a dumbass.

          • Destro

            I know you dont get it or see it because your not an unbiased observer of this time,dont matter….It exists and a few other posts have seen what im talking about it,its always the butt hurt posters like urself who are emotionally invested into individual players who makes tenderheart replies like yours…  

            • Raps4Ever

              I bow to the brilliant minds that actually think they know exactly what’s going on in the minds of ED, JJ and DD in scrums, while also expressing their insightful analysis of ED busting his butt on D (beyond fn laughable), and implying JJ is anywhere close to consistent on D or anywhere else, and ignoring DD repeatedly being quoted about how they’re so much better with AB on the floor.

              I bow, I really do. There’s no way I can battle genius mind readers.

              • Destro

                Why were you saying you dont love AB ? clearly his dick stays in ur mouth and posts….At least i can be biased towards everybody else you cant…it leaves your opinions useless…

                • Raps4Ever

                  “Why were you saying you don’t love AB ?”

                  I didn’t say anything of the kind, one way or the other.  Any commentary I’ve made in this thread is in relation to the imaginary mind reading skills of you and others, along with your support of a “great post” also calling ED a great defender.

                  If you weren’t so pathetic, you’d be funny. First you claim, and actually fn believe, to be brilliant at reading spoiled athletes minds on the floor, while you watch on TV, and think anybody who has even the minor wisdom it takes to know what they don’t know, is licking dick. Do you sit in the basement sniffing your mommy’s panties while thinking so highly of yourself?

                  Now, you invent things that I’m saying to try and insult me and build your battered self esteem up. News flash: The world isn’t at fault for your misery, and you really won’t find the help you need on here, no matter how much you babble the days away.

          • Destro

            Lets break down ur post further….I said Ed is inconsistent but tries you misquoted fag….and no bargs D never looks good regardless….and the body language in timeouts and huddles certainly indicates there is some discontent and lack of respect held by some towards Ab and Jose….its a great post because it gives you insight into the team dynamic and why some players are inconsistent and why there does seem to be no rhyhtym or comraderie amongst this group….again tho im not surprised your stupid ass doesnt see it or understand it…you’re the epitome of a smart/dumb poster…

    • Tonious35

      I don’t hate Bargnani that much, but I feel Bargnani has not yet found or does not have that “leadership” acumen or presence that can make the other players around him practice harder or just play smarter.  Can some new players like Jonas and/or the top 5 pick bring more vocal/”fearless” talents on this team next year? 

  • Destro

    I still think the term accountability is a talking point with this team…Because its not even across the board…I do wonder how much of accountability or lack of placed on #7 comes from the GM….What we learned from Sam Mitchell… 

    • cesco

      What is BC going to criticize Andrea for . Lack of rebounding ? , the team is around # 13 in the league in rebounding right now . Winning percentage with and without him on the floor ?  , you know already the answer to that . Leadership qualities , attitude , being a team player , all checks . Not being an all-star ? come on , if he is an all star it would be all gravy and Casey said he played , when healthy , like an all star . Besides all that Andrea has not finished improving , wait till he is teamed-up with a quality center in JV .

      • sleepz

        2012 Toronto Raptors – Where not being an all-star is considered actually being one.

        • Nilanka15

          LOL!

        • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

          2012 Toronto Raptors- where losing is winning to some deranged fans aka fanatics….

          BC’s Kool Aid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH1ZcKc4Pc8 !!

        • Raps4Ever

          cesco said that Casey referred to him as playing at an all star level before the injury. Is anybody now denying that? Because nobody was then.

          • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

            Casey also said that AB was Dirk like as well……lmfao

          • j bean

            He had 13 games this year where he played way beyond what he had ever done before. I was super impressed and thought he was all-star caliber. Now though it isn’t cut and dried and we can only wonder if he’ll ever approach that level of play again. Privately Casey is probably wondering the same thing.

            • Raps4Ever

              I truly have no idea what Casey now feels about AB, nor if it’s really any different than he thought prior to the injury that kept him out for 8 of 10 weeks in this insane season that’s creating anomalies all around the league on a daily basis. Frankly I’m not judging anybody too much, + or -, based on this year, except for what Casey has done, and that BC has stayed the course that he said he set at the beginning of the year. I’ll be far more critical of all these spoiled athletes next year, after they’ve had a summer and training camp to work withing this coaching staff’s guidance.

        • CJT

          That means a lot considering Yao was voted to the allstar two years after he retired.

          • Destro

            So your saying Yao didnt deserve any of those all star nods based on work he did on the floor ?

            Stop creating sideways counter arguments…

            • Nilanka15

              When healthy, of course he deserved the nods.  When he was injured, he most certainly did not deserve the votes.

              • Destro

                Why even comment on the obvious ? to create some faux balance on this topic ? POint is Yao was a bonified all star when he played and desvered many of thos nods where as bargnani has not deserved it….theres a difference a huge one between them,why bother trying to create an argument where there is none ?

                • Nilanka15

                  Because I get annoyed with a player like Yao (who was good, but hardly the best player in the league), leads the league in all-star votes.

                  Side topic, I know….but fan voting should be abolished.

                • Destro

                  Yes but why even argue the premise when we both know the forced narrative is comparing Bargs not being selected to Yao being selected,its a faux argument cuz one deserved it many times,the other doesnt….your always trying to balance an argument that lopsided and foolish to begin with….

                • CJT

                  I didn’t intend to suggest that AB was all star quality this season, my point was that being an allstar is given a lot of weight on this site as to the quality of the player, but being voted in by fans doesn’t necessarily equate to quality play it equates to popularity.  I only used Yao as an example because he hadn’t played in a few years when he led the voting.  You could also talk about the year Vince wouldn’t give his spot up to Jordan.  Jordan certainly didn’t earn his way on to the team that year, but was voted in becuase of his former superstar play. 

            • CJT

              No I’m say that being voted to the allstar team not having played a game in two seasons has to cast some doubt on the selection process.  It’s American Idol for sports. 

              • Destro

                Doesnt detract that Yao was a legit AS and Ab is not…..The vote process is lame but doesnt make this argument…

      • Destro

        yes 13th of which he contributes very little too…Remmeber were keeping players individually accoutnable not team stat boxes….So yes he should be accountable for things he doesnt do such as rebounding and defense…

        You put alot of stock into losing win percentages…His percentage is lousy but because it better when he’s not playing you score that as some kind of feather in his cap,which is quite amusing…IF he was an all star it would mean he would be good in the things listed above,but IFs dont count and unfortunately for you and your argument he ISNT….i cant wait til he teams up with whomever will make him a better rebounder and a better defender..and apparently you think that will be a rookie….bless you friend…     

        • CJT

          Are you saying that all of the allstar players that are voted in by fans are statistcally good in all categories?  Because you know that is crap. 

          • Destro

            Are you saying you dont understand why he hasnt been voted in ? When your a big in the NBA your expected to defend and rebound,when you dont do either your not going to get all star recognition…..Are you trying to say thats equal to D Wade having low block numbers per game…ol smart dumb muthafucker

        • CJT

          Because people want to see really good rebounding in the allstar game.  It’s all about the defense.

          • Destro

            Dense reply….Coaches who vote on the reserves are not going to vote a C or PF in who averages 5 boards and is solely a volume shooter on a bad team……Ive said this for years he’ll never get a sniff until his rebounding numbers go up and he starts D’n up and this team win loss improves…which IMO would based on those factors….

          • Destro

            Explain Ben wallace being in an all star game avergaing about 8 PPG ? Part of it was him being on a ship team but another part were his perceived all league D and his great rebounding numbers….

            • CJT

              I think you hit the nail on the head, the championship run.  He has basically been considered a scrub ever since. 

      • sleepz

        I think everyone would be happy if BC was just more self-critical and truly analyzed his performance as GM of the Raptors.

        • Rob

          He did say this at last season’s year end press conference: 

          “Overall, defensively, we have to get better. Is it all personnel? To some degree, yes, and I’ll take my share of the blame for that,” Colangelo said. “I’ve made some very good draft picks. I’ve made some bad draft picks. I’ve made some good trades. I’ve made some bad trades.   

          Maybe not a lot of humility there, but rather than rhetoric I’d like more of a willingness to move his own draft selection(s) that he’s put so much investment/time in….I think we all know who I’m talking about.

          • CJT

            I agree, move Davis.

            • Rob

              I was thinking Alabi, but close enough.

              • Steve

                we all know who Nilanka is thinking.

                • Nilanka15

                  Whoa, not only is Steve Picket Fence’s number 1 fan, but he’s also a mind reader!!!

                  Your powers of deduction are impeccable!!!

              • CJT

                Nice one.  But no seriously keep Alabi right?

  • vern

    Davis had a dip in production across the board this season compared to last season, his minutes dropped, but not significantly (25 mpg last season, 22 this season). He still has a broken jump shot and poor post-game. Most of his high rebound games have come in garbage time in losses. His defence is also incredibly inconsistent. 

    • Destro

      garbage time losses is almost 3 quarters for this team…..stop it…

      So we have found another reason why bargs cant rebound….he doesnt play enough garbage time in losses OH !!!

      • vern

        I’m not defending Bargnani, he’s a shitty rebounder and poor defensive player, Ed is better in those regards. But seriously bro why you gotta bring him up in the convo though? You got some obsession with him or something man. regarding Ed I am just saying to be wary about a good rebounder on a bad team that does little else.

        • Rob

          No point in arguing with him, you can have a discussion with him about quantum physics and he’ll still find a way to make it about how much Bargnani/Calderon/Colangelo/Raptors etc. suck or how much you suck. His life is consumed by it, lol.

          • Destro

            When bargnani and his online team stop sucking his dick on this board i’ll stop pointing out his defficiencies…

            • Lorenzo

               At least they don’t suck their own dick Dipshitstro. Oh my bad, i mean Gotstogo!!!

            • Rob

              Nope, I would like to see him gone just as much as you do. Only I don’t hate him nearly as much as you do, and I don’t post about him on this site nearly as much as you (and your alter ego) do, so you need something better than trying to congregate me into the fanboy crowd.

        • Destro

          Because the criticism is dishonest here…..Ed,DD,JJ,Amir combined are not afforded the same excuses and protection he is….read some of the comments breh…

          You have guys blaming his rebounding on others on the team doing the rebounding…..read some of the posts breh and youll get it…

          ONe thing i dont do is dish out unfair criticism to any player on this team…..

          • Raps4Ever

            There are some silly comments from all directions. What you don’t realize, and I doubt have the smarts to ever realize, is you try battling silliness with even dumber stuff, and actually think you’re doing some service to the good of Raptor Nation by educating the masses to your own special brand of dumbass.

        • Destro

          BE wary of good rebounder on a bad team ?

          Where do you ppl come up with this stuff,seriously ?

        • sleepz

          That is a solid point. One area in which I have always expected continual improvment in Ed is shot blocking as he showed a tremendous ability for this in his college days.

          I haven’t seen this ability as readily as I thought I would from Ed in his 2 years in the league.

  • DC

    Funny how the same people that love AB are the same ones that hated on Bosh when he was here. AB has been on this team for what 7 years now. How many all star appearances does he have again? 0. nada. nothing. Bosh at this time had about 3-4. Bargs will never be the player bosh was. Hell he’s not even half the pf Bosh was. 

    • sleepz

      I won’t get into it because it will just cause the same type of debate that is forever raging around these parts but I defintiely agree that there are some posters staunchly defending Bargnani now were killing Bosh when he was here.

      Thats about as hypocritical as it can get if you ask me and makes absolutely no sense based on the arguments used to defend AB

  • NyAlesund

    This team is lack of talent. There are some players like AB an JC not really respected into the group. For certain reasons is normal, when AB played really bad defensively and JC doesn’t able to contain a single pg in this league. On the other hand ED, JJ, DD didn’t do  nothing to be considered better than the europeans. There are no one that can watch himself on the mirror and says I am working hard on both side of the floor.

    I don’t know what kind of deal Casey has with a single guys, but for my point of view anyone has to be accountable for any mistake and consequently to be punished. It means to sit on the bench seeing the other guys playing. If Casey demanded to AB to be aggressive on D he has to do it. No excuses at all. The respect and the leadership can be obtain only if someone plays hard.

    No prisoners, no status, no salaries, no talent, no experience, nothing. Everybody on the same side.