Sam Smith, from Bulls.com, made an interesting statement that has a raised a few eyebrows, and blew up my phone with a million text messages:

Many believe Nash instead of chasing a title with a contender for a lesser salary will go back to Canada and the Raptors for a three-year deal and help bring their young players along

Smith calls this ‘informed speculation’ (listen to Joseph Casciaro’s solid interview with Sam Smith), and at first glance, there are couple things at play that could make this a reality:

  • Nash recently took the reigns of Canada Basketball, so being based out of Toronto seems to be a no-brainer for someone running a program that is based out of Toronto (I assume it’s based here).
  • He would be treated like a god while leading and mentoring a young Raptor’s team. This would also bleed into his Canada Basketball duties as the kids on the squad would benefit from an up-close-and-personal look at him in action.
  • He has demonstrated time-and-again that loyalty is more important than winning a championship; he could have easily asked to be shipped out of Phoenix the last couple years to a championship calibre team, but he didn’t, and has towed the company line for the Suns. I’m sure he would kill for a championship, but it seems he values other ‘things’ above getting one – gotta love principals.
This move does raise a few questions, though, namely:
  1. What happens to Calderon? To get a Steve Nash to come to Toronto, you’re looking at a 3yr/$30m type deal, which would commit more than a third of the Raptors payroll to two aging point guards on a rebuilding team. I’m not arguing either of their value to a rebuilding team, just the actual investment being made especially considering Bayless is more than serviceable as a backup.
  2. Does Calderon or Kleiza get amnestied? Before you rip my head off, amnestying Calderon would be retarded (Colagelo’s phone would be ringing off the hook if Nash came to town). Kleiza on the other hand, could be a candidate. Yes, it would be nice to have him here to help Jonas acclimate, but at just under $5m/year, that money could be better spent on an Ersan Ilayasova or something (sign me up for that btw).
  3. Would the Raptors draft a point guard this year? That would be the second domino (the 3rd being Calderon gets traded). Nash would obviously be the starter, but I don’t see him playing more than 30-32 minutes a game. Bayless has shown growth this season, but I’m not sold on him being a starter; even if he is, the Raptors need a third pg who can be groomed to start or come off the bench once succession falls into place.

My $0.02? I make this move in a second. Nash is an upgrade to Calderon in all facets of the game; even considering his age (31.6min 12.5pts 10.7ast 3.0rebs 20.29per vs 33.9min 10.5pts 8.8ast 3.0rebs 16.73per). You could get good value for Calderon, while maintaining a high calibre of play at the point by bringing him in.

I’m excited for this summer; player movement is going to be insane.

  • Brian Gerstein

    The more I am reading the tealeaves the more I see Colangelo going all-out in super aggressive mode to make an insane amount of moves and leave the cupboard bare.  Will this be the right approach?  No way of knowing, but once the dominos start to fall I have a feeling we will be in for the most exciting off-season to date.

  • Rick

    This decision would be so much easier if he already had an NBA championship ring. It’s almost a shame for him to, and I don’t want to say waste, but spend the last years of his career on a developing team and retire with no ring. I’ve always been a fan of his, and if so chooses to come here, then I’m all for it, but in the end I truly think he deserves a ring.

  • Luca

    A couple of problems with the article. 
    Calderon would have to be traded for pennies on the dollar.  He’s just not that good and he makes more than he should. 
    Illayasova for the mid-level?, he could get more so it’s not Kleiza for Illayasova.
    Basketball Canada in TO, no need to assume, just get the facts.

    Ofourse Nash to Toronto works out for Toronto, but does it work for Nash?  I say his commitment to Basketball Canada and his playing career tells me that his reputitaion in Cnada really can’t get any bigger, and that includes finishing his career in TO.   Unless this team all of sudden finds players that can actually post a +.500 record, Nash, for his sake, should stay far away.    

    • Sam Holako

      I never said Illaysova for the mid-level; just that Kleiza might have to get amnestied for the economics of his contract to work. Reality is the Raptors still need a couple more pieces even if they land Ersan and Nash, and get something for Calderon.

    • 2damkule

      can you break down what it is that makes calderon ‘not that good?’  i’ll grant that he’s likely not ‘worth’ what he’s paid…but all things considered, if you look at the salaries of the top PGs in the L, and where he ACTUALLY slots in with those PGs (and it’s not as far down the list as many would like to think), his contract is a closer reflection of his abilities than many would like to admit.  if he was making a million or two less per year, would that be more acceptable?

      look, i’m a huuuge nash fan, i think he’s done more for bball in this country than every other canadian player combined…but despite putting up incredible numbers, and more importantly, leading a team that would have won 10 games without him to within a fart of the playoffs, he is on the decline.  no player keeps themself in better shape, so i don’t doubt that he’ll be a productive player much later in his career than other players of similar age, but i simply don’t see the value in him joining the raps, either for him or the team.  that doesn’t necessarily mean i want calderon around long term either…i’d just rather that the team focuses more on youth (outside of bayless…IMO, it’s time to cut bait) at that position.

      • Nilanka15

        Nash combined with Marshall (as an understudy) seems to make sense long-term.

        • WJF

          I like the prospects of Marshall going forward, he is my type of PG. Jose is only signed for one more season, so I see two options. We re-sign him for a 2-3 year affordable contract and he mentors Marshall for 2 seasons and backs him up for 2, or we Sign Nash for 2-3 years and move Jose, either way Marshall gets a solid mentor to ease him into the league. 

        • OnTheRightTrack

          Are you sure about Marshall. Clearly a great floor general and passer, but he’s not very athletic, a weak defender and can’t shoot. Is that the future we want?

          • Nilanka15

            Ideally, no.  But IMO, he’s the best PG prospect in the draft.

          • Konanas

            He’s not as bad shooter as you think… He just doesn’t shoot so often. Let’s compare his percentage with several NBA PGs':

            K. Marshall (sophomore) FG .467, 3PT .354

            J. Calderon (’11-’12) FG .457, 3PT .371
            M. Conley (’11-’12) FG .433 3PT .377
            J. Nelson (’11-’12) FG .427, 3PT .377
            B. Jennings (’11-’12) FG .418 3PT .332

            And he’s good playmaker too :)

            • 2damkule

              i dunno, i think it’s a bit of a stretch to compare shooting %’s between college & the pros…the D just isn’t close, and the 3pt line is significantly closer.

              • Konanas

                Okay, then we could look to other college guards:

                K. Marshall  FG .467, 3PT .354 

                A. Rivers FG .433 3PT .365
                D. Lillard FG .467 3PT .409
                M. Teague FG .412 3PT .325
                T. Wroten FG .443 3PT .161
                B. Beal FG .445 3PT .339

              • Matt52

                 The perfect illustration, while not a PG, is Derrick Williams.  Lights out last year at Arizona…. a bit of a wake up call with Minnesota this year. 

          • Marty

            J.Kidd had the same knocks on him! You saw how bad that UNC became when Marshall was out. Just saying!

          • Nisizzle

            Marshall isnt the best athlete, but he makes up for it with size. Other pg’s use speed to get past players, but considering his floor vision and being a pass first pg being 6’4” he can look over his defenders easily and scope the offense

        • Raps Loyalist

          Marshall at 8 would be a big reach…if the Raps want to draft a PG I think we should try and trade the #8 for Houston’s #14 and #16 better yet move the #8 to Sac for T.Evans

          • Lorenzo

            Sounds good..

      • Luca

        Calderon to me is a below average PG in the league.  This comment stems from looking at the positive plays and his negative plays.  Nobody disputes his assist-to-TO ratio, but I don’t think there is a worse defender of the ball PG in the league (can’t keep any PG in fron of him which really make sthe rest of teh guys look bad).  So that to me makes him a negative player, but add in his inability to get his own shot off, and teh money he makes, it was a bad contract when it was issued.

         

        • 2damkule

          defense is always an issue, but there are probably, what, half-a-dozen stellar defensive PGs (if that) in the L.  the difference in many cases is that those PGs who are likely on par with jose in terms of defensive ability have better guys behind him to bail him out, something jose has lacked for some time…so when he gets blown by, and there’s no help, it’s more noticeable.  it’s not a coincidence that the overall team D improved exponentially this year, and that jose’s D was not nearly the issue it was in the past.  

          how’s nash on the defensive end, btw?  by your criteria, wouldn’t that make him a ‘negative’ player?

          • Luca

            I’ll re-phrase, one of the worst on the ball defenders I have seen is Jose.  So forget half a dozen stellar defensive guys, I would say there are few if any as bad as Jose.   What you say is true, but defense starts at the PG position – all teh help defense that is needed to overcome this when Jose is on teh floor is mind numbing.   Also, I wouldn’t call Calderon a tough guard offensively, he equally can’t blow by his man.  Nash is the definition of a tough guard.  Calderon’s offense can’t overcome his negative defensive play, the opposite can be said for Nash. 

            Nash has never been a negative player.  He is so efficient and effective on the offensive end, Caledron can’t compete.  But as Nash’s numbers dwindle Caledron may start narrowing the gap, but that’s not a good thing when Nash is closer to 40 than 30.

        • The Truth

           Nash isn’t going to be any improvement on the defensive end, if anything he might even be a tad worse.

          • Luca

            I disagree.  Few are worse than Jose and to me Nash isn’t one of them.

            But even if we say they are equally bad defensively, unfortunately Calderon is not equally good on the offensive end.

            So in terms of being a negative player, Calderon is one and Nash isn’t.

            • Destro

              Basically they both are trash defensively but at least Nash gives you enough offense to offset what he gives up.Calderons 10 pts is not enough….

      • Tinman

        As per value being added to the Raps – name me 3 better leaders than Nash. If we are not top 3 in draft, as stated above draft a point guard.

      • voy

        i like nash too but not for the raps.  besides, 3 years / 30 mill you gotta be crazy to make that move.

        • c_bcm

           I agree entirely. It seems everyone is jumping on the love wagon right now for Nash. I’m just not sold on the idea yet.

    • Dow Jones

      Luca what are you talking about, your a hater!!!! The raptors were close to trading calderone 2 times already and the first time was for tyson chandler. He helped dallas win a championship. Pennies on the dollar? I think not bub. Plus he opened eyes this season as one of the league leaders in assists right beside chris paul I believe. Thats why he almost got traded to the lakers this season smart guy 

  • j bean

    Nash or Calderone? That isn’t even debatable. 
    Nash would probably have at least a couple of teams higher on his where to play list but realistically they have to be in the mix.   

  • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

    Sign Nash. Trade Jose. Draft Wroten Jr.

    • HitItHardFromTheBack

      Real talk right here.

    • Nilanka15

      With you grandson on the Raptors, would you be able to get us free tickets???

    • Lorenzo

      You spelled Perry Jones wrong.

  • dribbles

    I’m guessing if Nash does wind up here, it’s going to be some kind of a S+T with Phoenix with Calderon going there. Phoenix is blowing it up, and Calderon’s expiring contract would be valuable to them going into the 2013 offseason. It works for BC because he basically swaps equivalent contracts (Nash might cost a bit more), and leaves $$ for targeting a SF. I wouldn’t be surprised if we also took Grant Hill with the trade exception (doesn’t fill the shooting void necessarily, but Casey would love him and his wife is from TO, isn’t she?). There would still be money to go after a younger talent if I’m not mistaken.

    I still don’t think it’s going to happen though. If Deron doesn’t go to Dallas, how does Nash not wind up there? Indiana could be in the mix (good talent but not sure Nash would love to play there), and Portland too so long as Nash isn’t worried about their medical staff. Nash would be close to home playing there, and they would have some talent around him.

    • The Truth

       Nash is a free agent…

      • The Truth

         (My point being A why would he choose to come here and B why would it necessarily involve Phoenix at all).

        • Nilanka15

          His loyalty to the Suns could motivate Nash to agree to a S&T (to ensure they’re not left empty-handed).

          Similar to how Bosh left Toronto.

          • Lorenzo

            And what did Toronto get out of that….? Oh yeah, thats right

            • Nilanka15

              We got flexibility.  It’s Colangelo’s fault for not using it.

              But technically, we got Bayless, JJ, and Ajinca, lol.

              • Lorenzo

                Take that Miami! lol

          • Theswirsky

            Umm are you talking about the sign and trade being similar, or Bosh not wanting to leave Toronto empty handed…. cause the only reason a sign and trade happened is because it was in Miami’s best interest to do it.

            • Nilanka15

              Yes, the S&T being similar (not Bosh’s intentions).  I realized the ambiguity in my statement after I posted it.

    • Pesterm1

      calderon for nash is a possibility. I keep on thinking itd going to be a sign and trade for bayles though. bayless is a pheonix native and would be adored by fans after loosing nash.

      • 2damkule

        ‘adored’ for how long, exactly?  and i pity the poor bastard who’s gonna be filling nash’s shoes in the desert, as they go through what could be a fairly ugly rebuild.  looootttts of garbage on that roster.

        • c_bcm

          Yeah it looks like Phoenix tried to replicate what Boston did, accumulating older players who want to play together and eek out a couple of competitive seasons. But it begs the obvious question that they are facing now. “Now what?”

  • Daniel

    Nash? Let’s see:
    1. style of play: Nash is the best college-type b-ball PG ever. The problem is that in NBA college ball doesn’t win. Nash is effective in only one style: no defense and a particular type of offense. He needs to have only stretching bigs, runners and shooters at the wings positions. He’s playing small ball in a sport dominated by bigs. When he played with Shaq, even if washed-up already, he could not adjust to inside-out, entry first and follow-up pass to the bigs basketball. The Suns are not even running a system: they improvise in their offensive sets and their bread and butter is the jump shot. This is by design and not by choice. The winning teams will not go after Nash because they understand his style and its limited effectiveness.
    2. opportunity cost in  two aspects: first, the salary used for Nash will not be used to sign players for a team in our situation. Granted, the revenues will cover the salary multiple times however the revenues mean nothing from a cap perspective (see Maple Leafs). Second, we already have Nash-lite: the idea to replace a 30 years old top 5 PG statistically with a 39 years old player with only marginally better offensive production is nuts.
    3. age: this is Hakeem 2.0 signing. Enough said.
    4. need: we need a back-up PG, two quality wings and a back-up C (starter until Jonas starts). Nash doesn’t fit any of these needs.
    I understand the marketing aspect of such a move however I am a fan and I don’t care about that. All I care is winning and I know the Suns in the last 3 years have been irrelevant. Bringing Nash is the definition of the law of the diminishing marginal return when we have Calderon already. I fail to see how our bigs and our style of play will get significantly better with Nash instead of Calderon.

    • Nilanka15

      Hakeem 2.0?  Hardly.

      Hakeem was already an injury-plagued sloth in the steep decline of his career, by the time we signed him.  Nash, although old, is still a top 5 PG in this league fully capable of playing starter’s minutes, and producing accordingly. 

      There is no comparison between the 2 situations.

      • Theswirsky

        Huge Nash fan.  But Nash, and his ever growing injury problems, without Phoenix’s staff on a much large than Hakeem Conract?  Don’t think Nash would be a dick and just stop playing and retire though ofcourse. 

        Its bad news.  If this is true, this is being done to sell tickets and make money (he will sell out games for the first half of the season), not for the long term good of the franchise.

        • Nilanka15

          Despite the injury concerns, Nash only missed 4 games this season, 7 games the year before, and 1 game the year before that.  Alex McKechnie is considered one of the best in the business.  I’m sure Nash’s health would be in good hands.

          As for the long-term good of the franchise, the signing only makes sense of we obtain a young PG as well, capable of studying Nash for 2 years, and taking over as a full-time starter in year 3.

          • Theswirsky

            can’t a young PG study under Nash by watching video?  Or study under Jose.  PGs don’t just learn no look passes, instincts and awareness.

            Not knocking Nash here, but the only successful PG thats ever played behind Nash is Gorgan, and he isn’t even a starter (yet). 

            • Nilanka15

              All I’m saying is that for a young, pass-first PG, there’s a lot more to learn by playing behind a guy like Nash, than say Jrue Holiday (for example).

              You can only learn so much from watching video.  But the season long back and forth interaction between master and pupil would be much more beneficial in the long run.

              Yes, it’s possible for a kid to learn from Jose.  But even Jose could learn a lot from Nash.

              • Theswirsky

                I agree that there is probably alot more to learn from Nash than Holiday, but there is a lot more to learn from Jose than Holiday to.

                Jose and Nash really aren’t that far apart in terms of what they do ‘right’.  They both are hard workers, ultimate professionals, put teammates first, don’t back down kind of guys.  What would a young pg learn from Nash that he wouldn’t from Jose?

                The idea of a player being a ‘mentor’ I think is often misleading.  Nash isn’t going to turn so and so into a Nash like no look passes, high efficiency highlight reel player.  Could he help him learn how to be a pro?  Most definetely…. but he isn’t going to teach a guy the intangibles of play making, or an uncanny 6th sense.  There are some thngs in life you either have or you don’t.  They can’t be taught or learned, just developed.

                We see this around the league, even when coaches are brought in to work specifically with players.  Did Ewing turn Dwight into a Patrick Ewing?  No.  Did Kareem turn Bynum into a Kareem? No. 

                Every player has their unique strengths and weaknesses.  Unless a player is already ‘Nash like’ in their playmaking ability, all they can learn from Nash is what any other ‘real professional’ (that is, not an Allen Iverson like player) can teach.

                Like I mentioned above… if what you said were true… why don’t we see 4 or 5 mini Nashs around the NBA?  He’s had more than a few PGs behind him in the depth charts throughout his career.  What players ‘teach’ other players are the details… how to be and act professional. How to stay focused.  How to play smart.  What it takes to be successful etc.  If a player doesn’t have the same unique skill set another does, they aren’t going to learn it just by sitting next to them.

                As for Jose learning from Nash… I don’t think so. 

            • Bendit

              Goran Dragic?

    • Milesboyer

      Signing Nash and trading Calderon – I like the idea of a S&T with Phoenix, it makes sense as long as Sarver is over his grudge with BC – means basically two years of Nash at $10 mil since the first year is a wash with Caldy’s current salary.  So maybe the last of those two years isn’t so productive, but his leadership is still worth something and by then, hopefully the future point guard is ready to go full time.  If the opportunity is there, I think it has to be taken advantage of. The worst case scenario – a sharp decline by Nash – just isn’t that bad or likely at this point.

      • Ms. R.

        I have to agree with Milesboyer.  The idea of having Nash on the team can only be a good thing in the long run.  So he might not be in his “prime”, but what about all the experience he has to offer?  What about the great locker room moral he’ll create?  Not to mention the draw of having Steve Nash in a Raptor’s jersey.

        • Nilanka15

          Even if he’s past his prime, Nash should still be more productive than Calderon next season.

    • FLUXLAND

      Well said. This is a marketing move, there is no other reasoning behind this other than to sell tickets. This will be a new low for the Raptors if this happens.

      • FAQ

        Hey, Flux …. Raptors playoff bound in 2022…. believe it.

        Meanwhile BC has got to get bums into ACC seats and eyes crying at the TV… because money makes the world go round and round.

        • FLUXLAND

          2022? I think you are being a little optimistic here.

           

          • Lorenzo

            Holy shit reading your comments is depressing. If no one’s told you yet, pessimism isn’t really a good thing. 😀

            The world is a big place… lots of things to do… if you catch my drift

    • Jay M.

      Weren’t you the guy that called Nash “criminally overrated” lol.

      • Daniel

        I realize I’m wasting my time however can you name a 2-times MVP whose team never won its Conference, never mind a championship? I’ve always liked Nash as a player however I’ve seen wizards like him playing a losing type of b-ball before: Pistol Pete, Tim Hardaway, KJ, Allen Iverson. Nash got way too many accolades for what he actually accomplished for a variety of reasons. In my opinion he should sign for a title contender if any wants him.

        • Bendit

          Isn’t the MVP an award given for regular season play? And there was that “little” incident when he got mugged by Horry and Stern’s get tough stance re Stoudemire in a conf final. Last I heard bball is a team game and Nash is eminently a team player. What is it about his game that is “losing”? All that said I am frankly ambivalent about Nash becoming a Raptor at this time in it’s evolution.

          • FLUXLAND

            Losing is the fact when his teams step on the floor the idea will be to outscore the opponent. Basically, his teams play only one end of the floor and praying on the other – that means you’ve lost before the game even started.

          • Destro

            Yea and in the NBA the best player is judged greatly on how well that team plays and those Suns teams underperformed with Nash as there leader,same way you judge KObe and LeBrons success under team success we do Nash as well….

        • Jay M.

          What does that have to do with anything? He’s led the Suns to the Western conference finals 3 times carrying the team on his back. He continues to remain loyal to a Suns team even after 2 of their core players left yet he still led them to within a sniff of the playoffs where they would otherwise have been a lottery team. Whether or not he wins a title should have no baring on his current status as an NBA player, and a very good one at that. He makes players around him BETTER, he has played on a contending team multiple times, earning that contending status in large part due to him, and you have the audacity to compare him to AI? If there’s one thing we can agree on, it’s that you are wasting your time, and I’m glad you realized it.

          • FLUXLAND

            AI is ten times the player Nash will ever be, based on skills. And if anyone carried his team on his back, it was AI, not Nash.

            Nash is by far the most over rated player in NBA history.

            • Jay M.

              You’re didn’t even address the point pal, he used losing/winning to justify a PG’s worth, and threw him in that same category as AI and other ringless PGs. Based on pure skills AI was better, he’s one of the most prolific scorers in NBA history, and now AI is about 2 years younger than Nash, where is he? For Nash to be doing this at his age is impressive, he makes a team better, simple. Remember AI joining Melo and the Nuggets, he sure made them better eh? Pistons, Grizz… If you think Nash is overrated then you don’t know jack shit about ball.

              • Destro

                He is overrated….you’re replies prove that…
                Your defending him as if he has won multiple rings and 1st team ALL NBA nods….He was GIVEN 2 MVP’s by the writers,has never won a thing and was a 3rd option in Dallas….Good player but definitely accomplishment wise one of the most overrated NBA players of all time….

                I wouldnt put him in the TOP 10 PG’s of all time,yet your giving him pub as if he’s No 1….

            • Destro

              AI carried a team with mediocre talent in 2001 to a finals app against the Lakers….Nash couldnt carry All star teams to a single finals appearance….

          • Destro

            Nash didnt carry those team on his back….Stoudemire was as intrical to those teams as Nash was and the numbers clearly show that…STAT dominated Tim Duncan those yrs they couldnt beat the Spurs…

            The fact he didnt win a title DOES bare on his legacy cuz he’s the ONLY 2 time MVP to never appear in a finals..you cant remove or discount that fact…..He played on great teams littered with all stars and still could not lead those teams to finals app or rings…his 2 mvp awards will always be speculated on that premise,given that you could make the argument he had more to work with then other players (Kobe 05-06) and Shaq (04-05) who deserved the award just as much…

            You could also make the case that D’Antoni was the REAL MVP of those teams as you notice when he left Nash slipped back into statlines he had in Dallas where they didnt run and gun…

            and once again i’ll re iterate it will always be tough to ever put nash in that upper elite category (i dont) because he was and is always a terrible defender,in fact i have made the case that his defense was as much a reason those Suns teams never won a championship or even get to one…pretty hard to beat the Spurs in the West in those prime years when you cant defend Tony Parker and they basically have to hide Nash on Bowen defensively and move Marion onto TP,and thats what they did to keep TP from torching nash game in and game out….  

    • 2damkule

      i’m not trying to be argumentative, but it seems as though your perception of nash is stuck in 2006.  he’s actually shown himself to be incredibly adaptable to different styles of play…did this year’s team (or last) bear any semblance to his earlier suns teams?  or to the shaq-era mess?  not really…other than that they were all, at least, moderately successful.  

    • why

      Maybe he is John Stockton 2.0.

    • sangaman

      The only reason Nash and Phoenix didnt win was NBA inconsistent refereeing allowing Bruce Bowen to repeatedly maul and tackle Nash in the 2007 conference finals.  

      • Destro

        Completely revisionist and false…
        Even if Stoudemire wasnt suspended it doesnt mean the Suns would have won that series…it was tied 2-2 at the point the suspensions happened…You automatically give the Suns the benefit of the doubt they “would” have won,when in 2005 with home court and a better team they lost in 5 games to the same Spurs team….

        If anything the 2007 playoff run shows that Stoudemire was just as important if not more important to that Suns team in the playoffs…

  • FAQ

    Nash would opt for NYK before TO.  That might make Lin more available  too.  When I called for more “veteran” players instead of useless draft picks, I didn’t mean a near-washed up old geezer like Nash.  Of course emotionally besotted tribal honking fans will disagree with me… which means they are wrong and I am right.

    • TheR3dMenace

      Legit 2012 All-Star Steve Nash aka Geezer

    • Nilanka15

      NYK doesn’t have D’Antoni, nor the money.

    • Tinman

      sooooooooo obviiioussssssss

  • TheR3dMenace

    If we sign Nash to a 2yr/3 yr player option, Calderon is off the books after next year anyway. He could even be traded before the deadline for picks or whatever to get cap relief. Personally I think since both Nash and Jose need limited minutes it would be an interesting experiment for 3/4 of a season. I could see it paying off. Jose might even come back for a hometown discount if the Raps made a playoff upset.

    • Nilanka15

      Signing Nash only makes sense if we have his successor in place shortly afterwards.  It wouldn’t be a good idea to keep Calderon at the expense of a to-be-determined young PG.

      • Daniel

        OK, I’ll bite. In NBA the successor thing doesn’t work. Professional sports teams are built for now and don’t have succession plans in place. A player either performs now or there are other players ready to take his place. If succession thing worked, all the dynasty or good teams would have been permanently good based on internal growth of the young players. In reality, the new players, obtained through trades, free agency or drafts, are replacing the old/unproductive players.  The reason is very simple: the attitude, skills and court awareness cannot be learned from older players. They are the results of individual talent, repetition and work ethic. Also the average NBA player’s career is approx. 5 years; compared with a normal professional career there is no time or interest to mentor effectively new players.
        I keep hearing about these ancillary benefits of signing Nash: “mentoring” a young PG, attracting superstars, etc. I say bogus: Nash has not mentored anybody in his long career (I just explained that’s the nature of the beast); he did not attract any superstars in Phoenix (Hill and Shaq joined the Suns at the end of their career).
        Let me provide one example: approx. 3 years ago ray Allen tried to “mentor” Rondo regarding his shooting ability. Newspapers described the time the two put together in the gym in order to achieve this noble goal. The result: Rondo is still an awful shooter and after 1 year Allen gave up.
        I’d be really disgusted if we signed Nash. I really have hopes for this team if we keep building the right way. Nash is the last player I want signed for us.  

        • Milesboyer

          Mentoring in the NBA doesn’t happen in the traditional sense, it’s more about the tone and work ethic set by the older players.  Even though it’s a bit more ambiguous than a traditional apprenticeship, it is still very important.

          • Daniel

            That’s not individual mentoring, that’s called organizational culture and all organizations have it.

            • Milesboyer

              In a locker room of ten or so meaningful players, one guy can make a huge difference, especially one who’s been a two time MVP and is known for his work ethic and professionalism. Mentoring is influence from one person to another that has lasting positive effects.  I believe Nash would provide this in spades.

              • FAQ

                Are NBA players paid for “mentoring” other players???  I don’t think so.  Maybe chewing out a rookie for a dumb mistake or telling him to move his azz.  Nash on the Raptors would have to mentor at least 5 players … not feasible.

              • FLUXLAND

                Bro, wake up. This is not high school. These guys are getting paid and fighting for jobs.  And if you think anyone is listening to a two time MVP thief, who’s accomplished nothing in his career, you are delusional.  It will be like Jose mentoring except with better English, but he will still get tuned out because he’s hasn’t done anything with his career of any significance.  The NBA used him and his marketability to sell tickets, otherwise he’s done nothing.

              • Destro

                You believe in all the disney type cliches huh….You believe Nash wills his teams to win and wants it more than other players do huh…

  • Statement

    To me, the PG position isn’t currently a problem.  Jose is a good player and I would try to bring him back for a few more years after this year at a cheaper rate.

    The problem is every other position, outside of centre.  We have Val coming it which is a good thing, but Derozan (and I know that this is a broken record) Bargs are not good enough players. 

    We need upgrades at SG, SF and PF.  These are the areas to focus on.  We have freed up money, spend it on getting good players for these positions.

    I really like Danny Green’s game, we should go after him.

    There is already a glut of PFs with Amir, Ed and Bargs. I understand that Bargs isn’t going anywhere so there isn’t any flexiblity there.

    Illyasova is better than what we have now.

    Also, Aaron Gray is a good defender and strong rebounder (seriously check out his rebounding rate, he’s 3rd in the league just behind Dwight Howard) so he can start, at least initially till Val gets his feet wet.

    Jose / Bayless
    Green / Draft pick
    Illyasova / Johnson
    Bargs / Johnson
    Val (Gray?)

    Is a good enough team for the next few years to at least make the playoffs.  And lets be serious, Miami and Chicago have the east wrapped up for, what, the next 5 years at least.  The 2nd round is likely our ceiling for that time period and I could this team at least offering hope that they could get there, given that there is upside in Val and the draft pick and that Illyaova and Green are young and could conceivably improve (but at least offer the same level of production).

     

    • Nilanka15

      As someone mentioned above, we could obtain Nash in a S&T for Calderon (assuming Phoenix is willing), thus preserving our cap space to go after a SG or SF.

      As for the Bulls, who knows what kind of player Rose will be when he returns from injury.  For a player who relies so heavily on his athleticism, he could be noticeably slower next year…and maybe for the rest of his career.  The Bulls may not be a lock to own the East after all.

      • Statement

        If we could get Nash in a S&T for Calderon and keep our cap space, that would be great.

        Nash
        Green
        Illyasova
        Bargs
        Val

        Now we’re talking (I still believe that the ceiling is 2nd round, however).

        • ad

           Why settle for mediocrity with somebody like green. Cant we aim higher? The raptors goal should be winning a championship not mediocrity. We already know they can achieve that if they want. If green is a back up, fine. But starting him would be like starting james johnson.

          • Statement

            I disagree, I think Green is a better player than Johnson and is in the mould of Paul George, who I also think is a good plaer.

            He is a solid starter for a championship calibre team, I would take that.

          • Lorenzo

             Exactly, DO NOT settle. Go for Ray Allen or OJ mayo or maybe even James Harden. Danny Green is a “filler” starter in that he’s there because he fits with that lineup on the floor. 

    • Nilanka15

      I agree that PG isn’t biggest problem right now.  But Nash is one of the few players (along with Paul) capable of making his teammates noticeably better.  It’s scary to think how could DeRozan, JJ, Amir, Bargs, Val, etc. will look with Nash running the show.

    • FAQ

      Raptors  would be lucky to just reach the playoffs at 8th place and a quick exit … by 2022 …. because all the strong US players don’t want to come to Toronto and play for a foreign country.

  • ad

    Not sure this is the right move at this stage of nash’s career. He is on the decline and could just turn old and suck any year now. Ilyasova is intriguing but not sure where he would fit. The raptors either need proven all stars like deron williams or players with upside to be all stars acquired thru trade or draft. Those are the players that will make a difference and improve this team to elite. Role players like danny green wont do shit to turn this team around. Theyre good to have when the team already has all stars or potential all stars in place.

  • CalgaryRapsFan

    I would be ok signing Nash to a 3yr/$30M contract.

    BC would suddenly have one more asset to use in potential trades:
    – Calderon (1yr/$10M)
    – Amir/Davis
    – JJ
    – Bayless S&T
    – 2 x 2012 2nd round picks
    – 2013 top-3 protected 1st round pick
    – $7M TPE (only available before July 1st)

    IMO, Calderon has good value around the league, especially for a veteran team in ‘win now’ mode.  There was apparent interest in him at this year’s trade deadline and I would expect there to be even more interest in him this offseason, given his now expiring contract status.

  • KaioKev

    Debate it all you want. Nash ain’t coming. Simple and plain.

    • Ms. R.

      Thank god someone has some inside information.

      • Lorenzo

        Everyone please, a moment of silence for KaioKev, may he rest in peace.

  • NyAlesund

    The first reaction was great! Nash to Toronto. But as some other guys has just said it is not a good idea. Nash is an Hall of Famer but is so close to 40. In the last two years his performances went down slightly but inexorable and for the Raptors situation is not the best solution. We have Calderon, younger than him and also in better physical condition. The performance are not really difference now (not 3 years ago) but now we have to turn out our attention to other players.

    Of course I don’t saying that Calderon is untouchable, but if we change the pg is necessary to choice someone younger and possibly better than the spanish fella.

    • guest

      At the end of the day, Brian has to fill the seats in the arena….  winning is ideal but it is a business and a business needs to make money. Nash is a no brainer in that regard, I think they would sell out that first season easily with Nash coming in even if they did not get close to the playoffs. That would also save Brian’s job since I believe this is a make or break year for him. Calderon would have to go, plain and simple… too expensive. Nash and Amare running the pick and role was a thing of beauty.  The Raptors would need to find that player, more so than keeping Calderon.
       Nash is also familiar with Bayless both being from Phoenix, so I think that would be a good fit. Also, Nash knows he has limited time left to play.  There are not a lot of players I would say this about but I think the legacy that Nash wants to leave is greater than just winning or being a basketball player. He has a strong social conscience and being able to say he groomed someone who went on to become a good/great player might be significant to him. Being in Canada at the end of his career might also be something that he values.  For me the key player would be Casey because he would be getting a pg who would be limited in his defensive abilities. I think this rumor could have some legs.

    • Nilanka15

      What evidence is there to support that Calderon is in better physical condition than Nash?

      Over the past 7 seasons, Calderon has missed 78 total games.  During that same span, Nash has missed 30.

      Last season alone, Calderon missed 13 games while Nash missed 4.

      • Steve G

        Jose’s minutes per game are on an upwards trend while Nash’s are headed in the opposite direction. Chances are in the next 1-2 seaons Nash won’t even be averaging 30 minutes a game.

        • Nilanka15

          2 seasons is all we need.

          • Steve G

            Oh sorry, I thought we were trying to improve.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804874 Beau MacKinlay

    Answers to your questions:

    1. Calderon is traded or amnestied.
    Preferably traded, but we need to make sure no or little salary comes back. Utah is an obvious choice since the Okur TPE nicely fits Calderon’s contract, and Calderon would look great running the pick and roll with Utah’s big men. We could probably get a 2nd round pick or future first out of them if we’re lucky. If we can’t send Calderon out for little or nothing, then amnestying him to make room for Nash makes sense. It wouldn’t be as bad as you think, as Calderon would surely be picked up during the waiver process and at least half his contract would be covered. Sucks to lose him for nothing, but all this sign and trade with Phoenix nonsense also gets us back nothing, besides making no sense. Calderon has a pretty huge contract, and teams aren’t willing to take it on without sending the Raptors a bunch of crap contracts in return, a big reason why he hasn’t been traded yet.

    2. Calderon would get amnestied before Kleiza, and Amir would get amnestied before Kleiza too. Kleiza actually has a pretty decent contract, and there were a bunch of teams trying to trade for him at the deadline. No one was trying to trade for Amir because his contract kinda sucks. Amir has 3 years and $19.5 million left on his contract, not to mention he plays the same position as Bargnani and Davis. Kleiza has 2 years and $9.2 million left on his contract, and can play a position of need in SF, plus the whole being from the same country as Jonas thing. If you can trade Calderon for little or nothing, you don’t need to amnesty anyone to get Nash (but to get another FA we might), but if we need to amnesty someone to get Nash, it’s going to probably be Calderon, but maybe Amir. I think Amir would be picked up off waivers and a good chunk of his contract would be covered.

    3. Maybe, it all depends on where we pick, and who is available with the pick. If we draft at 9 as is most likely, then I’m fine with taking Marshall or Lillard, assuming someone we really want didn’t slip to us. Having one of them play under Nash for 3 years (maybe 2) would be great for their development, and would give us our PG of the future just when this team will be ready to peak.

    As for those saying Nash isn’t much of an upgrade over Calderon, you are insane. These stats are from this past season on 82games.
    Calderon offensive PER 16.9
    Nash offensive PER 20.6

    Calderon defensive PER 17.8
    Nash defensive PER 13.6

    As you can see, Nash is a way above average offensive player, while Calderon is just slightly above average offensive player. Also, Nash is an above average defender, while Calderon is a very poor defender. Nash has 2 MVP’s and multiple playoff and all star appearances. Calderon is not anywhere near Nash’s level, not now, not ever.

    I for one can’t wait for Captain Canada to suit up for the Raptors!

    • Statement

      Calderon had a better defensive rating that Nash,

      Which is to say that defensive statistics are tough to use.

      • WhiteVegas

         That’s a worse defensive rating than Nash. The defensive PER refers to his opponent counterparts PER. So PG playing against Calderon averaged a 17.8 PER, meaning they played well above the league average of 15. PG who played against Nash averaged a 13.6 PER, meaning they played below average with Nash guarding them.

    • sangaman

      Agreed. Nash and a young drafted point guard would be a great combo. Mentor and student..  Nash will make everyone much better especially Bargs with the knack of setting up the mid-range big shooter as well as easy buckets in the paint.  

  • Truthkiller

    This has got to be some sort of practical joke, Nash is not playing for the Raptors this season or next season. 

    He better than anyone knows he does not want to go down in NBA history as the 2nd best point guard not to win a championship.

    • Nilanka15

      You’re assuming Nash thinks like most pro athletes, when he’s already proven that he doesn’t.

      • Truthkiller

        I’m certain he thinks like most pro athletes, but compared to today’s athletes the only thing he did different was respect his contract and not force his way out ala Carmelo Anthony. Just watch he’ll be on a contender come Training Camp. 

        • Milesboyer

          Star players have two priorities – money and winning a title.  If they can be combined it’s a no brainer, if they can’t, the decision is a little more unpredictable.  Toronto can offer as much money as anyone and there are other minor factors to our benefit.  Obviously winning a title doesn’t play into it but I don’t know if there is a team out there that can offer both – I can’t see Nash going to Miami, Chicago, OKC or SA for obvious reasons, none of them would have the $$ and 3 out of 4 already have an elite PG.  Indiana is the only – very arguably – team that has $$ and a chance at winning (a few rounds in the playoffs at best).

        • Nilanka15

          See yertu’s post below.  He sums up perfectly what I would attempt to convey regarding Nash’s motivation.

      • FLUXLAND

        You mean like when he left DAL for PHX because Bry was shelling out more money? Yeah, he def. doesn’t think like most pro players. Sure.

        • Raps4Ever

          Talking out of your butt again.

          • Steve

            Butt, mouth, no one can tell the difference with Fuxland :)

  • 511

    I’d love to see Nash here for his last couple or so years. I don’t think Calderon is near not-as-good as Sam Smith seems to think but there’s little question that Nash would be a definite upgrade. He keeps himself fit and healthy enough to still be very effective – sometimes, even spectacularly – and his court vision, to me, is similar to what Gretzky’s was on the ice, which is unparalleled. It’d be a huge treat to be able to watch him day-in and day-out for a while. Regarding his affect on other players … with the improvements that I saw for the odd (very) few moments from Bayless … which at times, almost confused me (like, COULD he actually learn to play this game up to his abilities or … not?), if Nash might have an influence of any kind (and any kind would likely be powerful), it’d be a large benefit to having him here. The Bayless thing is a stretch, I know, but overall, I think whatever might rub off from him on any Raptor would be nothing but good. I think the Suns will miss him more than they realize. He’s a very rare kind of player. If we have a chance at him, I say we’d have to take it. 

  • Nisizzle

    Why do we automatically assume Nash’s preferred destination is Toronto. it is clear he wants a chance at a ring before he retires and no way will he get that here

    • 2damkule

      IMO, it’s obvious that any player worth his salt – and especially one who’s nearing the end of his career – would want a chance to compete for a title.  but in nash’s case, i don’t think it’s something he’s desparate for…if he was, then those feelings would have overridden his loyalty to PHX, and he would have requested a trade either last year or this.  it just doesn’t seem to fit his character…he preferred trying to get HIS team to overachieve & get to the playoffs, vs. taking the ‘easy’ route by demanding a trade to a contender.

      now, as a FA, he’s fulfilled all his obligations to PHX, and is free to choose to play where he’d like…but i still have a hard time picturing him wanting to join an already stacked team.  i don’t get the sense that he’ll define the quality or success of his career by whether he has a ring or not…and further, i don’t think he gives a rat shit whether anyone else does.  his legacy – besides being a great PG – is that he’ll go down as one of the absolute best teammates in the history of the game, and i think that will define him more than the fact that he went ringless. 

  • Jake

    I think Nash should join his old pal Nowitzki and the Mavs, that’s assuming they don’t get D-Will.

  • Trruth

    there is a dumb cunt on these message boards (nilanka) who is under the impression that adding nash is the way to go b/c he can mentor a young pg, wake the fuck up you tard!You don’t think coaches and trainers can’t effectively show a pg what to do? instead you wan’t to throw 30 million at a player who is 38 years old for fucks sake!! did you suffer a blow to the head? you are beyond retarded!!

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/LMFALBV7ECFQCSLTWXK4UFPRYE Andrew

       Wow…lol chill out man

    • Lorenzo

      Watch out, badass!

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/LMFALBV7ECFQCSLTWXK4UFPRYE Andrew

    This will be a very interesting off season that is for sure!

  • 12yearoldkid

    the rapptors need to get sum gud players,,, kobe.

  • Canuckles0909

    Who uses the term “retarded” when writing a story?

  • Roblukas77

    I say we do a sign and trade “Nash for Calderon” let bayless go and sign Dragic as his back up for health insurance, they have worked together before well and I feel like when Dragic is ready to start which is really soon that they could switch roles and Nash could be the backup in a year or 2.

  • Buschfire

    uhmm  i don’t know if this has been posted on this site but i just found this on Real GM

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221026/Report_Raptors_Set_Sights_On_Nash_Lin

    don’t know where the info came from but what do you think? Nash or Lin??!?