New Grizzlies CEO Jason Levien told local reporters late last week that “we really like our team” and that it is “more likely than not that we do nothing” in terms of breaking up Memphis’ marquee foursome of Gay, point guard Mike Conley, forward Zach Randolph and center Marc Gasol.

But sources say that the Raptors, undaunted by that stance, continue to pursue Gay and also covet Grizzlies forward Darrell Arthur. Toronto, sources said, has made veteran point guard Jose Calderon and blossoming young forward Ed Davis available as the two cornerstones of its offer.

Other teams remain engaged with the Grizzlies as well, as Memphis officials continue to weigh whether it is best to trade Gay or keep together the core of a team that has ranked among the top four in the Western Conference.

If talks with the Raptors do progress, according to sources, it’s possible that a trade with Memphis could expand to include other teams and players. NBA front-office sources have maintained for weeks that Calderon (who has an expiring contract), fellow Raptors point guard Kyle Lowry (only $1 million in guaranteed salary next season) and former No. 1 overall pick Andrea Bargnani all are available.

If this happens, it will be a highly questionable move by Colangelo, who already has swingmen like DeMar DeRozan and Terrence Ross on the roster. With Gay’s contract going even beyond Bargnani’s, and his overall star falling in recent times, this looks like a panic-move more than anything. Perhaps it’s Colangelo eyeing Boston’s injury situation and speculating that the Raptors’ unlikely playoff push has become more reasonable, while seeing this as a move that might get the team over the hump. In any case, fans can’t be happy with Ed Davis being the guy on the block. Regardless of what you might think of him, his growth this year has been staggering.

The small forward has been a big problem for a number of years, but whether Gay is the answer (especially at this rate) is debatable. This move sounds like a classic case of “buying high” in terms of salary, but on the other hand, given the problems Toronto has had getting people to come here, a player who comes in with a long-term contract secured is a bonus. I suppose this is the “accelerated” part of the rebuild that Colangelo mentioned, and with Lowry not working out, this appears to be the course correction deemed appropriate. On the plus side, Gay is 26 and could be the scorer that the Raptors desperately need to step up in late-game situations.

We might’ve missed out on Carter/McGrady, maybe DeRozan/Gay will have to do. And can you imagine if somehow Bargnani was included in this deal? That would mean the Raptors would have swapped the #1 pick for the #8 pick six years later.

Don’t forget to vote on this trade on the sidebar or on FB if you’re inclined.

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  • Doc

    This is the type of move Colangelo should not be allowed to make by the board of directors. It would be a blatant attempt to make the playoffs this year to save his job and mortgaging the future on a guy like Gay is a big mistake.

  • Buschfire
  • since95

    please no!

  • Dc

    God please no. Aint this supposed to be the time when stefanski is supposed to tackle colangelo from making a trade? Jesus. Colangelo is an idiot and should of been fired 3-4 years ago. What does this dude really expect to happen even if he pulls off this terrible trade. We still aint gonna make the playoffs. Even if we did is making the playoffs with a losing record and getting swept enough to save his job is that really enough for this fucker to save his job. I really hope not. 

  • Cinga

    wow. Another jump shooter. Keep Joseeeee. Davis is just rounding into form, young big man rounding into form. smh

  • voy

    hard to see memphis pulling the trigger on this deal.  it’ll leave a huge hole at the 3 spot and really how realisitic are your chances of advancing in the playoffs without a small forward.  secondly, why would the grizz trade away a player whose skillset they cant replace  for another player who would be the 3rd best big.

    i def dont like this deal for the raps as well.

    • The Truth

       It’s a much better deal for Memphis looking past this season than it is for the Raptors. Certainly shipping Gay will hurt them this year but they will have the flexibility to get someone else in for next season.

      • why

        Don’t they have a legitimate chance to win the championship this season? Why would they throw that opportunity out the window?

        • The Truth

          That is the question the Memphis front office will be asking themselves. Any doubt they have exists because they still have the same core that finished 4th last year and lost out in the first round to the Clippers. Are they a more legitimate chance to win the championship this season, or are they in about the same position?

          • voy

            good point. depending upon who they think they can get, it may be one step back, this year, two steps forward, next.

          • why

            They might think that Z-Bo was injured last year and healthy this yearand  therefore they have as good a chance as anyone this season  – they have an inside power edge vs. virtually every team in the NBA.

  • Daniel

    A lineup of Lowry, Derozan, Gay, Andrea and Jonas would be a disaster. No D and high usage players in offense with no facilitator. It has to be much more than that.

  • RapChap

    I see this as the Grizzly’s PR machine in full swing. Especially considering it keeps coming up every week or two. I don’t see the Raptors putting out these kinds of messages. Or maybe we should trade all our guards, and all our forwards and only have wing players. 

  • Theswirsky

    Someone fire Colangelo before he fucks up more than he has already.

  • Mo

    Are the Raps actually going to have Rudy Gay, Bargnani and Derozan on one team? I would actually be able to hear Hollinger laughing at the Raps from Memphis if that happens.

    • Amigo

      Who is Hollinger ?

    • Right Clique

      Here’s the thing.  I don’t think Memphis would even need any convincing if this deal was offered as reported (maybe reservations about Arthur, but I doubt it).  Colangelo is probably trying to unload someone else on the Grizz and they’re not having any part of it.

      • mountio

        I sure as hell hope that if the deal is as reported, at least LK or LF are thrown in. Even then, im not thrilled .. but it makes a little more sense money wise and in terms of moving a wing

      • Mapko

        IMO this is exactly the problem. As much as loosing Gay would hurt Griz, financial flexibility would be great.
        I believe missing piece is either Kleiza or Fields ie no choice: Calderon & Davis plus you (Griz) must pick 1 of Kleiza or Fields.
        I am in no way stating that that would be a fair value for Gay (a borderline all star at best), but more than fair value for an grossly overpaid borderline all star IN TODAY’s NEW CBA.

  • FAQ

    Rudy Gay will get us into the playoffs.. guaranteed!!!  That’s what BC will be plugging to Moronto t.h.f.’s.

    Only trade Bargs and Lowry and then Memphis can move Bargs to LAL and Lowry to Boston.

    Problemo(s) solved…!!!!

    • Lucas

      In principle, I like that. In practice, I’m not sure it would work because, in theory, Pau Gasol has to be the one moving from LA, right? If so, who gets that massive contract? We’re getting Gay out of the deal, so not us; not Memphis for obvious reasons. It has to be Boston, and they need to GUT their roster to take that much payroll on.

      This works, but I’m not sure why LA makes this deal (maybe if they get a 1st round pick from Boston):

  • DryDry

    Colangelo is a short-sighted f*cking moron trying to save his own job. Do not trade Ed Davis.

  • Nilanka15

    I would make this trade in a heartbeat….not because of some desperate attempt to make the playoffs this year, but to shore up a position of need for multiple years to come.

    Calderon is an expiring contract.  The likelihood of him re-signing here in the offseason is unlikely (IMO), based on how the team has constantly tried to replace him over the past 5 years.  Every player has a sense of self-worth, no matter how polite/friendly they are.  The Raptors have shown that Calderon is expendable year, after year, after year, so why would Calderon have any sense of loyalty to the Raptors?  It doesn’t make sense, and sounds more like wishful thinking.

    As for Davis, Arse mentioned that acquiring Gay would be a classic case of “buying high”.  That may be true, but shipping Davis would be a classic case of SELLING high….something the Raptors never do.  Davis is not a superstar-in-the-making.  He’s a serviceable backup PF, who on most nights, is no different from the limited-ceiling journeyman, Amir.  This is the perfect time to trade Davis.  (The last time we sold high was Villenueva for Ford 6 years ago).

    As for the crowded wing rotation with Gay/DeRozan/Fields/Ross/Anderson, why do folks think no future transactions are possible?  We could attempt to trade DeRozan (Gay and Ross on the wings next year look good to me).  Chase a guy like Millsap this offseason, and just like that, we’ve exponentially improved the talent on this team.

    In general, let’s not get too emotionally attached to Calderon, Davis (or anyone not named Jonas or Ross).  This team is horrible, and outside of these 2 players, nobody is worth holding onto.  Gay is a clear upgrade over 95% of our roster. 

    I could envision Gay in Toronto having a similar impact as Harden in Houston.  The guy is a multi-talented player just waiting blow up with an offense designed to run through him.

    • Daniel

      You should keep this post as an epitaph on your tombstone. Gay is bad when surrounded by Conley, Gasol and B-Zo: imagine him in Toronto with Lowry, Andrea and Jonas. This is a desperation move from a desperate GM. In any case, I’m at peace with knowing that it will take at least 2-3 seasons for another GM to clear the mess created by Colangelo.

      • Daniel

        Sorry, Z-Bo.

      • Nilanka15

        According to this logic, you’d use Harden’s abysmal performance in last year’s playoffs (with great teammates in Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka) to conclude he’s no good.

        We need talent.  Gay is that talent.  If he was making $15 million (instead of $18), there’d be a lot less bellyaching.

        “Romney by a landslide” seems more appropriate for one’s tombstone, don’t you think?

        • Daniel

          Historically nations don’t commit suicide, they die a slow death. America just did. I can live with that epitaph. Can you?

          • Nilanka15

            So you’ll need about 20 years to prove your point.  Let’s revisit this topic then 😉

            In the meantime, Gay instantly improves this team in a position that’s sorely required improvement since 2004.

            • Dan

               gay would be an upgrade over everyone on the roster. At 15 mil and 18 then 19 he’s not worth it. His stats would probably improve back to the numbers he put up when he was the clear number one guy in Memphis. Those Memphis teams didn’t make the playoffs and you have a Bosh scenario again where you have a good number two or three guy as your number one player and it’s first round exits and mid range draft picks.

          • Guest

            only reason you disprove of the trade is because you’re a calderon fanboy. if it was anyone else involved besides him you’d support it.

            • Daniel

              I probably want more than anybody else for Jose to get a chance to play for a winner. Memphis is more than an intriguing team for him. I’m a Raptors fan first and foremost and this trade as advertised is awful.

        • KaioKev

          I have to disagree, we need size in the post. Aquiring Gay is  a sideways move. Yes, he’s a way better shooter than all the shooters we have but his defense is a question mark. At least Davis plays D.

          • Nilanka15

            We do need size in the post, in addition to many other things (including a real small forward).

            As for his defense, he’s far better than DeRozan.

          • RapthoseLeafs

            [” … At least Davis plays D. “]

            I really think this statement defines a true overstatement.

            First up …. I’ve been accused of suggesting an Ed Davis trade, because I want Bargnani back in the saddle. I think we can all resign ourselves to what will probably occur – Andrea will be traded. Maybe not till the summer, but odds are heavily in favour of such an event occuring.

            Raptors going forward will need a Starting PF, one with enough size to negate the weakness of a (currently) small Front Court. However, the more pressing need is a legitimate SF, and not another Bench-style type. As such, Toronto will have to give up something, in order to get something back.


            Not to be pessimistic about what Ed brings to the table … he has talent …. but – IMO – Ed is not as great a Defender as I keep hearing. He’s undersized, and not strong enough to handle true Bigs. Personally, I think AB is better with his one-on-one defense.

            As for Ed’s Offense – a great deal of his points are “spoon fed”. Davis does not draw double teams, or if he’s 10 feet out … draw single coverage. He’s getting better, but at this juncture, Davis is simply a top-quality Back-up Big. If some potential trade partner believes otherwise, so much the better.

            But stating that Ed is a significant reason for the Raptor turn-around, ignores Points in the Paint stats, and his effectiveness guarding the Post. Raptors improved play is a function of their Back-Court (#3 in January, 4th in December), along with an improved Bench (#2 in January, #4 in December). By the way – in November – the BackCourt was #19, while the Bench was #14.



            So … as you say KaioKev, Raptors need size in the post.


        • Mapko

          You are absolutely correct. BUT he IS making $18 plus mil.

          • RapthoseLeafs

            We – Raptor fans – need to stop worrying about money. Cap space has gotten us nothing. I’d argue, that it has had a reverse effect on Toronto.

            On a few occassions I’ve discussed this before, so I’ll try one more time.

            The old CBA was under-utilized by the Raptors. They had the financial ability to run with the big boys – Lakers, Mavs, Knicks – but chose not to. Maybe not the Knicks (from before), but certainly a number of others – with pretty much most of the top Spenders being play-off teams.

            A team like the Lakers certainly has had talent (isn’t working this year) and some astute coaching, in past seasons. However, it is their ability to move more assets (bloated or not), that allows them to make more trades, or have a greater opportunity to trade.

            Luxury Tax land may have been costly for these play-off teams, but it has also been a successful way to trading pieces. Even with the punitive new CBA, one has to wonder if being in this stratosphere will continue to provide better results for those hanging around. With less in the mix, the odds could get even better. That’s where Rogers/Bell could make a difference.


    • The Truth

      Selling high on Davis isn’t that great if it results in you buying high as well, and in this case very high. If the Raptors pulled the trigger on this then it would be nothing more than Colangelo selling our (already limited) medium to long term flexibility in the hope of sneaking into that 8th playoff spot this year.

      Yes other deals are possible, but do you really going to get quality back when you try to shift guys like Demar and Landry on the very freshly inked deals they are on now?

      • Nilanka15

        I don’t understand the logic.  If you believe that we can’t rid ourselves of DeRozan’s or Fields’ contracts, are we better off maintaining a roster of mediocre players and hoping we can land an elite free agent?

    • optifan

      Could not agree more. People make Davis out to be the next coming of Kevin Garnett.

      And I also agree with the Gay as Harden comment. I think if he’s on a team where he’s the number one option he can take it to the next level.

      On a side note, nobody has mentioned the interesting tidbit that earlier in the year Lowry told Holly Mackenzie that Gay is one of his closest friends in the league. Could that be added motivation for the Raps to put them together? Maybe the thinking is it helps Lowry to fit in better and creates somewhat of a dynamic duo?

    • sleepz

      I respect your opinion but the Gay and Harden comparison  is not even close.

      Harden is a tier 1 guy now (star). Gay has always been a tier 2 (cusp of stardom) and his play this year might move him back into tier 3 (good player).

      • Nilanka15

        How do you determine a tier 1 vs. tier 2 player?  Harden is younger, and has one all-star nod (this year), but would he be an all-star if still with OKC?  I doubt it.

        Besides, my attempt was not to compare Gay and Harden as individual players, but to compare the circumstances of going to a team, becoming the #1 guy, and thriving as a result.

        • sleepz

          Good question.

          Eye ball test, stats, influence on the game and how much they contribute to winning really. Not any empirical formula, just a feel.

          Harden is a star. I do believe that if he was still on OKC he would be an all-star as we’ve seen throughout the years that if you are on a championship calibre team you can have 3 all-stars (Miami, Boston, Lakers are all recent examples of this).

          I know what you were comparing, however Harden could go to a team and dominate as he has wonderful scoring and ball handling ability. I don’t see Gay making that type of leap cuz his game is that of a more conventional 3. He needs a good pg and probably deent threats around him to keep defences honest. He’ll score more as he’ll take more shots but that’s a huge financial investment for a ‘good’ player. 

          Don’t get me wrong, I like Rudy, but not at that salary or for a team that needs to go back to building from scratch. We shouldn’t be in any position to add that much long-term salary to a team that is 13 games under .500 and hasn’t made the playoffs in how many years?

          We need to be building slowly through the draft.

          • Nilanka15

            “We need to be building slowly through the draft.”

            Totally agree.  I just don’t see Colangelo ever committing to such a strategy (or MLSE for that matter).

            So if making trades is an inevitability, then I have no problem in losing Calderon/Davis for a player like Gay (despite his contract).

            • sleepz

              I don’t think Colangelo will be around here next year, but I do agree with you, unless they have put the shackles on him he is going to try and do something to try and make an unnecessary playoff push.

              MLSE should actually take this opportunity to build properly. Fan interest is still heavy and a new GM would get another 2 years leeway from fans.

              Besides, when your trying to compete and your team still produces lottery results, why not change and go the draft route.

              This is an accelerated rebuild year and they are still submerged under .500. lol

        • DumbassKicker

          He’s been the #1 option in Memphis every year except for his rookie year., yet in his 7th year his scoring efficiency is abysmal,,,, even worse than AB. His situation is so unlike Harden’s, your comparison is laughable. He’s been #1 option for 6 years!!!

          • Nilanka15

            No, he hasn’t been the #1 option.  Leading the team in field goal attemps does not mean the offense runs through him.  Memphis runs an inside-out offense through Randolph and Gasol.

            Metta World Peace averages more attempts than Nash, Gasol and Howard.  That does NOT mean he’s the #2 option behind Kobe.

            • DumbassKicker

              What????? I don’t know where to begin, or end, with just how stupid an analogy that is. The conversation has gone from the ridiculous to the sublime (stupidity, that is), so carry on with you and your brethren. Sheeeesh.

              • Nilanka15

                “Stupid analogy” because it goes against your point. 

                Nice chatting with you.

          • Dan

             His role has gotten smaller since he was out that year and the team still had success. As Gasol has gotten better and Randolf has proven himself they have become a more team oriented group. The offense is run more through the post and a lot of the ball handling is done by the pg. Gay still gets his shots but it’s more through the flow of the game rather than him dominating the ball in a Lebron or Durant type role. It’s part of the reason his shooting is down because he is a scorer not a shooter so he is less effective playing off the ball. Same as Mayo was. Two seasons ago he was the clear number one option. Once he went out Gasol and Randolf kind of took over as the top guys.

        • Dan

           When they first traded Pau, Gay became the number one Guy. He put up better stats then he is this year. He didn’t put up the stats or have the impact that Harden is having now. Harden can carry a team the way Wade can. I don’t think Gay has that ability. Gay is a slightly better version of Demar in my opinion.

    • ad

       Ross???? Why is Ross untouchable. He is another role player or fringe starter at best in the making. On offense all I see is 3 pters or dunks on fastbreaks. Nothing else on offense. Granted, he plays solid d but definitely not a  player with star potential. I would not inlcude him in a trade for gay though, but in a seraprate transaction for a millsap, sure. Lowry should be more untouchable than ross.

      • 2damkule

        if that’s all you see in ross, then i don’t think you’re paying close enough attention.  in many ways, he’s already superior to derozan, and i see no reason why – with proper coaching & continued development mentally & physically – he can’t be a significant player on a good, contending team.  IMO, he already has more pure basketball instincts & skill than does derozan…and better athleticism.  i’ve seen ross finish a break with his shot being contested more in his 1/2 a season than i have with DD in 3 years.

        • Nilanka15

          Nail, meet head.

  • downtown

    If anything, this team should not trade ‘sporadic consistency’ found in Calderon and Davis, for a player who will not guarantee any consistency, and will require consistent and creative playmaker which Lowry seems not to be. Regardless of Gay situation, the team should look to unload the players who are not the type of talent this team needs right now, such as mentioned Bargnani and Kleiza. As for someone’s notion up there that ‘Calderon would not resign with Toronto’, that is a speculation at best. Calderon has proved loyalty and proved many times over that he is comfortable in our city and with our organization (regardless of  the quality of the organization’s leadership). Calderon is the only guard we have that is collaborative in nature. Lowry and Lucas are both quick triggers, and both tend to overdribble in the last 2 months, which is a boost to a stagnant offence in which other players stand in corners and expect the ball to find way to their hands, rather than moving around, setting screens, and manufacturing opportunities for themselves. Davis, on the other hand, is not going to become a premium player or Garnett, but has something most of the players on this team lack: hustle and every day effort. Unless you are getting back Landry or Millsap in a deal somewhere, trading Davis for Gay leaves us with no substitution for this role and type of contribution.

    • Nilanka15

      “Calderon has proved loyalty”

      How so?  By accepting a boatload of money nobody else would’ve paid him?  Or is not openly sulking considered a loyal act?

      • Dan

        That is true.

        • 2damkule

          i refuse to blame calderon for the contract he was offered.  his ongoing ‘good soldier’ attitude in the face of being included in various trade scenarios & the seemingly annual search for his replacement, while not requesting to be traded or raising a stink, stands out in today’s sporting universe.

          • Nilanka15

            It stands out as not being a shit-disturber.  But can we assume that means he’s “loyal” to the Raptors (in the form of wanting to re-sign here)?

    • Milesboyer

      Calderon’s been treated like doggy do-do by this organization in the last few years, constantly in trade rumours, Lowry comes in and the starting spot is handed to him without question. Unless the Raptors offer more than any other team, which I doubt, since someone will become enamoured with his recent play and for good reason, he is not re-signing.  He’s a classy guy and class requires seeing things for what they are and rising above.  Calderon knows exactly what is going on – and not going on – which is being backed by the organization when rumours surface.  He’ll be in demand this offseason and have many suitors to choose from, why would he be “loyal” to Toronto when they’ve been anything but to him?

  • Lucas

    You know, I keep seeing people who are opposed to this sort of deal complaining about ruining our financial flexibility. But these people don’t seem to realise that we are NOT a choice destination for free agents. Any flexibility we get (much like when Bosh “came off” our books) will either go unused or, worse still, be used for the likes of Fields, Turkoglu, and Kapono.

    Given that reality, if you’re one of these opponents of this trade, can you seriously tell me you’d rather have any (or all) of those three players over Gay? At ANY price tag (because, last I checked, you don’t pay their bills, and as I just pointed out, financial flexibility is useless to us).

    Until we have evidence that elite free agents are willing to come here, I’ll take trades that net us the best player involved ANY DAY, even if it means we have limited financial flexibility in the future.


    On a related note, yes, I realise flexibility can at times come in handy for trades as well. But rarely does elite talent just get dumped to a team that can absorb salary (and there is no guarantee we would be such a team if that happened anyway). So having talented players, even with significant contracts, is at least as valuable for making trades happen as having cap space. And once those deals are expiring, large contracts can be even more valuable for trade-making purposes.

    • Theswirsky

      So since this team has problems overpaying for player, to remedy that it should trade for an overpayed player?  Gay is a much better player than Fields, Hedo and Kapono but he’s also being payed 3 times as much (twice as much in the case of Hedo)

      Elite free agents aren’t likely to sign here, and its unlikely the team will be able to trade for an elite talent, but that doesn’t mean the teams only option, let alone best option, is to trade for non-elite overpayed players.

      Open up cap space to take on bad contracts with picks.  Look to the draft to add elite talent and accept tanking offers the greatest reward to those ends. 

      This isn’t fantasy basketball where coming out on top or winning the trade means you are taking steps towards winning the championship or making it to the finals.

      Fire Colangelo and try something new.  An actual rebuild.

      • Nilanka15

        For the record, I’m for trading for Gay ONLY on the assumption that Colangelo is still calling the shots, and refusing to properly build through the draft (i.e. tanking for years until we draft “elite” talent).

        Based on this assumption, Gay’s $19 million is better value than DeRozan’s and Bargnani’s combined ($20 million).  Thanks to Matt52 for pointing this out.

    • DumbassKicker

      As a #1 option, on a team with 2 bigs drawing all kinds of attention away from him, he’s shooting 40% on over 16 fga/game, and shooting 30% from the arc,,,,, and this decline has been progressing for 3 years, but you consider him “elite”? That’s some low standards

  • Suds

    Does Collangelo have a gambling problem? All his trades and signings cause insurance actuaries to work overtime.
    All of his transactions are high risk for high reward moves. And most of them dont pan out.

    • Nilanka15

      The only low risk strategy is to seriously tank for 3+ years, collect multiple top-5 picks, and hope one (or two) of them are future stars. 

      I can’t see management, or ownership ever committing to such a strategy.

      • DumbassKicker

        Piss off season ticket holders, for years, through tanking, in the “hope” of winning the lottery multiple times, and the “hope” than when you do win it there’s a KD available instead of a AB, and the “hope” of never suffering Oden/Roy (soon to add Curry’s ankles and Granger’s kness to that list) type injuries is “low risk”? Low risk for who? Not ownership. Not management. Neither got to where they are relying upon lottery luck and crapshoot luck lasting for years.

        • Nilanka15

          What’s the alternative then?  Waiting for Davis and DeRozan to lead us to the promise land?  Trading for LeBron and Dwight?  Clearing cap space and making a run at Durant in 2016?  You’re clearly against the idea of Gay.

          You’re very skilled at criticizing everything, but not very adept at offering any semblance of a solution.

          • DumbassKicker

            Well, I don’t pretend to know enough about managing an NBA team to come up with absolute answers of how it should be done, nor am I big on relying upon low percentage hypotheticals as a “low risk” strategy.

            I think many here are being far too impatient, and stuck on past mistakes. In the past couple of years:
            1. We needed help at the 5. BC drafted Jonas, who looks VERY promising to be an all-star level 5, but is just a rookie.
            2. We needed help on the wing. BC drafted Ross, who also looks VERY promising, but is also just a rookie
            3. DD, with very hard work ethic as his rep, continues to show expansion and improvement in his game, all over the place, and is only 23. I think DD is going to be far better than you do. Neither of us is qualified to know for sure either way, but I think writing him off as not being near worth what his salary will be next year, is very premature.
            4. Ed Davis had a rough intro (injury, lockout effects) to the NBA in his first two years, but has shown great improvement in his game this year, and is only 23. He may not ever be an all-star, but is already showing that he can be a very serviceable backup/spot starter.
            5. Amir is still only 25, worth every penny he’s paid, and a valuable piece on any good team.
            6. We needed help at PG, and BC went out and got Lowry. His time with the Raps hasn’t started out well, but I for one am not ready to give up on him. He has the skill to still be a very key component to a winning team, though needs to work on the “muscle” between his ears.

            In my opinion, the best route right now is to give this group a chance to grow and develop together, at least longer than an injury plagued 1/2 season, before making drastic tank moves to hope for lottery luck, or quick fixes via overpaid, declining players (Gay) that have never won a damn thing with a better team.

            • Nilanka15

              Fair enough.  I just don’t think that a best-case scenario for every player mentioned above is likely. 

              And even if it were likely, I don’t see enough talent there to make noise in the weak Eastern Conference.

            • Nilanka15

              PS – By stating that, “this won’t work” or “that won’t work”, you are indeed making claims about knowing how to run an NBA team.

              • DumbassKicker

                But I didn’t say “this won’t work” or ‘that won’t work”. I in fact said I don’t have any absolute answers, one way or the other, but suggest that I feel a little patience with a young current group that shows promise, is wiser than the other ideas floating around. I began by saying that I disagree with your claim that the tanking route is low risk, and will gladly explain my reasons if you need more.

                You challenged me to present solutions, to which I pointed out that I didn’t have those absolute answers, but pointed out why I think a little patience with the current group would be prudent, rather than either jumping the gun on acquiring a severely overpaid non all-star, or blowing it all up and tanking for years in hopes of winning the lottery, or being lucky like Seattle/OKC and losing it to get a KD.

        • sleepz

          It’s interesting that you say that because the Raptors need only look into their own past when they drafted McGrady and Carter in consecutive years that they were ever truly relevant and regarded as a rising team in the League.

          OKC is not the only team that is building shrewdly through the draft to try and build a contender. NO, Cleveland, Minnesota are all teams that I see with brighter futures once their young players get better.

          That same lottery luck  is more about better talent evaluation and player development. Ask the Spurs iof they don’t gte the most out of their draft picks more often than not.

          • DumbassKicker

            “It’s interesting that you say that because the Raptors need only look
            into their own past when they drafted McGrady and Carter in consecutive
            years that they were ever truly relevant and regarded as a rising team
            in the League.”

            I have no idesa what you’re saying here in relation to my post saying that tanking for years and relying upon lottery luck is not “low risk”. Sorry, but no clue what you’re trying to say in relation to that.

            “OKC is not the only team that is building shrewdly through the draft to
            try and build a contender. NO, Cleveland, Minnesota are all teams that I
            see with brighter futures once their young players get better. ”

            OKC shrewdly? They got their superstar (KD) by pure luck that couldn’t possibly be planned. With the 5th best chance of winning the lottery, they don’t win the #1 pick, which goes to Portland with the 6th best chance. With that 5th best chance, they do win the 2nd pick though. That’s some luck right there, as one can’t shrewdly plan on winning something with a 9.7% chance of doing so. If they had won the #1 pick, which Portland did with a 5.3% chance, just as Portland did, they likely would have taken celebrated big man Oden. As luck would have it, they land KD with that 2nd pick. What’s shrewd about this plan? Without all the stars aligning perfectly, they could have ended up  with Oden, or their top pick being Jeff Green. This was all about unlikely luck going their way, just like the Bulls landing the top pick and Rose with the 9th best chance of doing so. What kind of shrewdness can one use to know which worst record to get that going to win the lottery? Do you target the 5th worst? 6th worst? 9th worst? As my point said, relying upon LUCK is far from “low risk”. NOTE: To add to the “luck” scenario, if the NBA doesn’t change eligibility rules the year before, KD would likely have been available when the Raps chose Bargnani.

            They also had the 5th pick that year and took Jeff Green, same position as KD, while passing on Noah and Thadeus Young. Shrewd or lost the crapshoot?

            Let’s have a look at the other shrewd and “more promising” teams you speak of:

            NO: They get the first pick and Anthony Davis tied for the 3rd worst record and chance (13.7%) of winning the lottery. If Charlotte(25% chance) wins it, or Wizards (19.9% chance) wins it, or Cleveland (13.8% chance) wins it, NO doesn’t get Davis. How where they more shrewd than Charlotte or Washington? Luck, and if that’s your plan, it’s not “low risk”.

            Cleveland: Without Kyrie Irving, their budding superstar, how promising are they? They got him by winning the lottery with the 8th best chance (2.8% chance). Is that “shrewd” or incredible pure luck? Damn, the Raptors should have had the 8th worst record that year instead of tanking with the 3rd worst record because that 15.6% chance wasn’t as shrewd as the 2.8% chance. the Raps did get a little lucky though when “shrewd” Minnesota picked Derrick Williams #2, Utah took Kanter #3, and “shrewd” Cleveland took Thompson #4, because at this moment, I’d take their #5 pick (JV) over any of the 2,3,4 picks. Anyway, was Cleveland shrewd, or very lucky in getting Irving? And the Raps unlucky in not getting that first pick with a much better chance?

            Minnesota: Kevin Love: That 2008 draft is almost a study of LUCK and CRAPSHOOT that is the lottery/draft. If Chicago, with the 9th worst chance (2.8%), doesn’t win the lottery and take Rose, the rest of the choices are all up in the air. What about Miami, taking Beasley with the 2nd pick? They could have taken Westbrook (fell to Seattle with 4th pick), or Love (5th pick), Gallinari (6th), Eric Gordon (7th), Brook Lopez (10th), Hibbert (17th). Aren’t all those teams lucky (especially shrewd Seattle/OKC) that Miami screwed up? I mean, Seattle/OKC was shrewd in falling the the 4th pick, from 2nd best chance, because they knew Beasley and Mayo were going to be picked ahead of Westbrook? As mentioned earlier, they took Derrick Williams #2, ahead of Kanter, Thompson, JV. Shrewd, dumb, or unlucky?

            NOTE: as far as “NO, Cleveland, Minnesota are all teams that I see with brighter futures once their young players get better.”,,,,,,,, It’s nice you have such certainty about the future of those teams, “once their players get better”, but is it inaccurate to have an opinion that the Raps young players can also will get a lot better and could be just as good or better than those teams? Neither you nor I have a clue what JV’s and Ross’s ceilings are at this point, to name just 2, and I still see MUCH promise in DD’s progress at 23.

            Have to include a note about the Spurs. You say they score more often than not. In light of that declaration, take a look at their draft picks for the last 10 years. Since 2001, when drafting Parker, have they drafted and developed anybody that has had an impact for them? Hey, the Spurs are a great organization, but they suffer as much as anybody from the crapshoot that the draft can be.

            At the end of the day,  my post was about disagreeing that tanking for the draft lottery is “low risk”. When you piss off paying customers with years of tanking, it’s a big risk to rely upon lottery luck and draft crapshoot luck.

  • Phat AlberG

    Once again Jose Calderon is costing us, we need a third team to get involve and no one wants this guy.  So why do Raptors fans love this guy??????

    • DumbassKicker

      Are you guys (you’re not the only one) suggesting Jose’s value in the league is indicated by what teams are willing to give up,,,,,, are you for real? It’s extremely rare that an expiring contract of a UFA gets much of value in return. Do you hear about people lining up to trade for Millsap or Jefferson? Both starters on a playoff team, both attractive to many teams, yet you hear nothing of teams lining up to give much for a 2-3 month rental, because they can walk at the end of it, just like Jose. The “difficulty” you speak of is zero indication of his true value around the league.

      • Phat AlberG

        Point well taken!! But man with Rudy Gay on wing starting with Derozan will be a great improvement from Landry Fields.   

    • Jafa

      Nets fan here…its not that NOBODY wants Jose, its that pretty much every contending team is set at the PG position.  The teams looking for PG help (Jazz, Bobcats to name a few) are non-contenders looking for young players that can be part of their team’s core, and Jose is not that.  Also, and more importantly, the Raptors don’t have a 1st round pick to offer to sweeten the deal for teams like Dallas who could help out by taking on Jose’s expiring contract.

  • nutshell

    Essentially here the knowledgeable people recognize the incoming salary is too high for what we would be getting.

  • Rido

    Davis is the best player, now, in this deal. Don’t trade him. If you can dump Bargs and Fields and Kleiza and any other piecses of Colangelo’s crap, then do so, but not at a cost to the “rebuild” we were sold on. At least we know that Davis will be a legitimate rotation player and he costs a fraction beneath Gay. Although, you have to think that “Gay” shirts will sell big in Toronto with its large community.

    • Nilanka15

      Davis is the best player in a deal involving Rudy Gay?  Wow….just wow.

  • Rama

    I have no problems with Rudy Gay coming to Toronto, he secures the SF position for a long time and with his contract length he cant just walk away from TO yet and at 26 he’s fit the model. Lowry is only not working out cause he’s not starting. I want to keep Davis and if Memphis is willing to take on another PF…if BC by some miracle can trade Calderon, Bargnani for Gay & Bayless, thats a solid young starting 5 that has star peices to build around- Lowry, Derozan, Gay, Davis, JoVa

  • Ar why we shouldn’t trade for gay.

    • Nilanka15

      The author believes the Raps have been “playing better of late”, and should remain status quo.

      I guess he failed to realize we’ve lost 7 of the last 9 games.

      • 2damkule

        …or that a significant factor in the ‘turnaround’ was that the schedule softened considerably.  the recent losses have more to do with simple fatigue more than anything…being shorthanded can be managed for a time, but the impact will eventually be felt, especially when the frontcourt is ‘small’ to begin with.  it’s asking a lot of ED & amir  to go out & play 30-ish + minutes every night, against frontcourts that they’re usually giving up size to.

  • Phat AlberG

    Calderon might be heading to the Celtics to complete the trade.