That’s my early feeling, and I know many share that view. Why? Bluntly put, as much as I appreciate the strides Jerryd Bayless made towards the end of the season when Calderon was injured, I don’t ever see him becoming a legitimate scoring or distribution threat, and definitely not a player that commands double teams. Bayless’ explosiveness comes in spurts, sometimes every other quarter, sometimes every couple games, that’s an inconsistency you don’t like to see from your starting point guard. As point guards become more athletic, dynamic and explosive, their importance has come to the forefront, and if there’s a chance to nab one of a kind here, I’m leaning towards taking the jump.
Offensively, there’s not much to complain about Walker’s game, he creates great separation using his dribble, has greatly improved his pick ‘n roll game, and is becoming a bulls-eye shooter from mid-range. His shot-pass decisions are not ideal but whose are? A guy with his level of skill and explosiveness can be forgiven for bouts of selfish play, and it’s not like he’s forcing his offensive play to the detriment of the team. When a play broke down at UConn, Walker usually had the ball and was forced to improvise, and those possessions don’t usually end up in great shots. Just ask Russell Westbrook, the guy is getting so much flak for his “selfish” play without people realizing that once Durant is taken out of a play, OKC’s offense isn’t exactly a haven for ball-movement and Westbrook is doing what he has to. Sure, there have been instances of bad play, but those are standard fare for NBA point guards, nothing out of the ordinary.
Back to Walker, defensively, the biggest knock on him is his size, he stands 6’ and change, putting him in the T.J Ford territory of things. I don’t think height is as much of a factor as people make it out to be because the NBA lacks great post-guards (and has for a long time) who can punish lack of size by taking you inside. A shorter guard is still liable to suffer on switches and the like, but as far as conceding an advantage on a possession-by-posession basis, forget about it. I’d be much more concerned if he didn’t have great lateral quicks, had weight issues or had even a slightly questionable handle. I think his defensive awareness and agility will translate nicely to the NBA.
If height is a factor, it’s on the offensive end where taller NBA defenders could cope with his separation-creation techniques and still contest his mid-range jumpers. I wouldn’t say he’s great at changing speeds right now, but there’s enough footage of him out there where he’s thrown defenses curveballs with his drive-shoot hesitations. More importantly, how his height can affect the NBA version of the pick ‘n roll is up for debate. How will he handle a hedge by a 7-footer? Can he consistently throw looping or skip passes while being pressured? The 3″ difference between Irving and Walker has as much to do with their separation in the mock draft tables as anything.
Speed at the point has been lacking since T.J Ford left, and you might recall how effective Ford was when he was on his game. It’s time for a renaissance, and Walker is currently positioned in the mock drafts that he could fall into Colangelo’s lap. He would immediately become one of the fastest guys in the league which is a great asset to have for the initiator of the offense. He comes with three years of experience under Jim Calhoun where he’s played full seasons, and has won a national championship. This is the kind of experience that the Raptors should be looking to bring in if they plan on keeping their pick.
Jonny Flynn with a jumper, a stronger Brandon Jennings, a poor early versionof Tony Parker? Aaron Brooks is the other guy that comes to mind, maybe even Jeff Teague (6’2″), however I’m rating Walker higher than them. He’s heavier than those guys and uses his strength well without compromising quickness. There’s absolutely no guarantees with Walker, but in my books he meets the criteria of a player that I’d like to have on a team I support: great character, excellent work-ethic, improving, fast, mature, skilled, and an innate instinct to compete. Remember, he’s 21 years old and comes with experience making him – dare I say – even more “NBA-ready” than Kyrie Irving. The latter is a complete basketball player, and a far more refined one at such a young age, but I think Walker’s experience allows him to have a quicker impact in the league. I like the tenacity of which he approaches the game, it’s not cockiness, it’s inborn confidence and I like.
In a different, better, draft class maybe Walker wouldn’t be rated as high as he is, that doesn’t change things because the Raptors have to play the cards they’ll be dealt. If they’re drafting anywhere between 3-6, Walker should be given serious consideration.
Chad Ford had the Raptors picking Enes Kanter (some reading on Kanter here), I get his reasoning which is lent even more credence because the Raptors are looking for a center. I’m just not sure Kanter satisfies the defensive requirement the Raptors have, he is a very good scorer for his age and uses his size well, that’s where it ends with him right now. I’m thinking that if it’s scoring we need, we already have that in Bargnani, what’s the point? Final comment on Jonas Valanciunas, he is intriguing to me except that he’s so raw that I don’t think I’ll have the patience to see him grow up. I know we’re in rebuilding and all that good stuff, but let’s try to move this thing along.
Here’s a DX/SI pre-tournament podcast discussing some of the prospects including Irving, Walker, Kanter and Valanciunas:
Hump day!
I sincerely hope the Raptors do not draft Walker. I think his NBA career will be disappointing. He doesn’t fill the need of a playmaker, or a perimeter defender and he is not a great shooter, which is necessary for an undersized guard.
It’s all moot until we see how the lottery plays out anyway.
Plus 1
No word was said about Brandon Knight
He posesses mostly same skills as Walker but is younger and thus with higher ceiling.
As for Valanciunas comment: wheres the rush? Lockout year spent in Europe, couple more to complete rebuild and you have a finished product just in time to contend for championship 😉
Younger does not equate to higher ceiling.
B. Knight is a flawed player – a less commited Ben Gordon.
Walker is Ben Gordon in a midget’s body.
Not a fan of Knight, don’t like his shot and don’t think his composure is that great. Not a fan of drafting a freshman PG (I know, I know, Irving) because it’ll take him a lot of PT to get up to speed. Maybe it’s not an issue with the Raptors since we’re rebuilding, but as I said in the post, I don’t want the Raptors to take on any projects. If you draft that this high, you have to get an immediate contributor.
When your best players are, at best, #3 depth-wise on a playoff team, or #4/5 on an actual contender, you have to pick the BPA in terms of reachable potential.
What’s an immediate contributor going to do? Help the Raptors get from 30 to 32 wins? What’s the point in that? What the Raptors need more than anything is high level talent and if they need to select someone who is going to take a year or two to contribute in order to get one, then so be it.
I really don’t understand this desire for a 22 win team to need to get an immediate contributor.
I would rather have Knight than Walker but he may be a reach where the Raptors pick as well. He’s supposed to be a very mature kid and I think he will improve more as a pro when the game opens up compared to in college.
Just another highly athletic small guy who has no real position and likely long term is a combo guard off the bench. His defensive limitation at point guard is not that Westbrook and Rose will shoot over him, but how can he get a hand in the face of a taller player on a switch?
If a player most likely to be a bench guy role player is the best the Raps can do with a top 5 pick, it is really a pathetic draft.
Look how good Ty Lawson Aarron Brookes are – also there is another player who dominated the point with speed by the name of Isaiah Thomas – Kemba is a winner and one of the few guys in this draft who will last beyond his rookie contract.
+1
Walker has the “it” factor. He is a winner and is a proven leader. His playmaking skills are very raw for sure, but with his work ethic and being surrounded with good character players (Ed Davis, Derozan) will help his playmaking development, just like Jeff Green and James Harden (left out Durant because the Raptors don’t have a KD) did for Westbrook in OKC. He wouldn’t have to be a scorer necessarily, so his potential as a playmaker could rapidly develop.
Nonetheless, Kemba would be a risky pick. But if a team takes on the personality of their point gaurd, like they say, alot of Raps fans would welcome Walkers intangibles and how they could potentially trickle down the Raptors roster. Better alternative to a Calderon-led team in my opinion.
re: Need for a two way center. Package Bargnani for Nene somehow? thatd be dope. F drafting an unknown…best available is the only way to go in this draft
Exactly. What’s the rush? To get to 30 wins?35? If Valanciuanas is going to be a strong two-way center and couple of years down the road, let’s live with it.
The biggest mistake a team can make is trying to get from 1 to four without going through 2 and 3. The only way it can be done is with an Alcindor or James. Don’t see one in this year’s draft.
Get Irving, Williams or the best big man you can. Get a second round pick and draft a point guard — Isaiah Thomas?– to play third string, learn the pro game and hopefully, be ready to play when injuries hit.
Next year is a strong draft. TO can fill another big hole there. This isn’t going to be quick or painless, but let’s try to get it right.
oops — that’s ‘ a strong two-way center……’.
Uh, nobody has said that Valanciunas is a lock to be a strong two-way center a couple years down the road. If that was the case, sure, pick him. Just look at Thabeet and countless project bigs picked purely on tools. There’s a reason why there’s a dearth of quality (true) centers. Valanciunas will need not only several years, but might not even make it past being a bench player.
Uh, what I said was IF Valanciunas is going to be…… . Same applies to Kanter and Biyombo.
Yes, there is a dearth of true centers. That’s why it’s important to draft one IF he can fill that big hole in the middle, particularly on the defensive end.
None of these guys are Thabeet. They may turn out to be but that has yet to be proven. That’s what scouts attempt to determine. Given your line of reasoning, a team should never draft a center
Finally, there are no locks in this draft except MAYBE Irving. There are very seldom locks when it comes to drafting. Very few Lebrons. Rose-Beasley, Durant-Oden were considered pick-ems.
Do your homework, Make the best educated guess that you can and hope the bpa fills one of your most pressing needs. A physical-two way center would fill that bill for Toronto. There are just no guarantees at 3-6 pick, particularly this year.
Ive noticed all these articles on this site. They are so stupid, untill the the lottery this is such nonsense. Not to mention the raps would have to trade down to get him. I personally wouldn’t mind seeing them trade down and take a guy like Kemba or Fredette but draft kemba already? I think Fredette’s a better fit any way. The raps should be drafting too high to even look at either of those and Thompson for that matter.
Goodness, sometimes I wonder. How the hell is Fredette a better fit?! It’s almost as if you didn’t realize this was a Raptors site.
If any of you saw Ty Lawson play in regular season when Felton went down and in play offs you would not think for a moment that size is a problem.
Just because it’s the exception that proves the rule, all small PGs will prevail?
You’re right in one sense. Lawson is a really good point guard even though he is undersized. The issue is that Lawson is and has been throughout college at point guard. I watched a lot of his games at UNC and he runs a team. Walker is a sg in an undersized point guard’s body. He hasn’t shown he can run an offense other than looking for his own shot.
Once again I thank god no-one affiliated with this site has any influence on Raptor decision making.
Yeah, I tend to agree here. This post seems a bit too close to watching some videos, getting all excited, and writing an article at the peak of euphoria.
Walker is great. I think he’s a winner, and is all kinds of clutch, and his NCAA tourney and lead-up was nothing short of legendary, but even still I’d only take him if the Raps ended up with the 5th or 6th pick. To come out with an article of such force, “Draft the guy already” as if it’s such a foregone conclusion, is a bit…premature. This is especially true I believe in the argument that he has a better value to the Raps than Kanter – because Kanter has offensive skills, we may as well keep Bargnani, who also has offensive skills. First off, the same thing can be said regarding Bayless and Walker. Secondly, Kanter is a true post player who thrives on contact and is an excellent rebounder. That he does these things on top of being able to score….so much more valuable than the skillset possessed by Bargnani.
I don’t know how much better he’d be than Bayless anyways, so drafting Walker would only add to the redundancy that is already a big problem on this team.
pretty sure the article says:
“If they’re drafting anywhere between 3-6, Walker should be given serious consideration”
If the Raptors are picking third, who would you select? Kanter?
I think Kanter’s going to be a better player. And the Raptors need to draft whatever player is going to be best. It just so happens that Kanter also fills a need, but that’s superfluous, at this point.
yes, kanter!
Agreed. Lots of point guards next year. Kanter and ED, as he fills out, give a defensive presence up front that is surely missing. If we have to draft 4th maybe. But any sooner, no way… and yes this is probably the one pick that could come back and bite you in the ass.
You can see alot of Kemba Walker’s highlights in this UConn video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFnQXT68zL4
Highlight reels on youtube tend to almost always tell one part of the story….the good part. A decidedly unwise way to gauge the strengths and weaknesses of a player but a great hype tool.
I have to say that this article was a bunch a trash.
First, I’m not even a fan of Bayless, but I would take Bayless over Walker without question.
“Offensively, there’s not much to complain about Walker’s game.” Are you serious? Walker is one of the biggest “chuckers” I have seen ever seen. His efficiency is horrendous and will likely only worsen against the size/strength/ athleticism of NBA defenders.
“He stands 6′ and change”
Ummm, he stands 5′ 10 with empty pockets. Put simply, he is a f****** midget.
“a stronger Brandon Jennings?”
Where do you come up with this shit?
Walker’s ceiling is a back-up pg on a good team. You don’t draft bench players with a top 5 pick.
We just disagree everywhere. Calling him a chucker is unfair. They lost their seniors, the ones they had last year didn’t play much at all, and they give heavy minutes to three freshmen. Being a PG on that kind of a roster demands that you produce offensively to alleviate the pressure off your teammates. He is far from a selfish player looking to get his.
The only problem with him is his size on offense, which I think he can overcome by becoming stronger. Solid frame to do that.
What about his size on D? It makes it easier to shoot over him. What about his poor assist to turnover stats? His shot is being blocked a lot by taller guards.
At this time of year everyone projected in the first round has their strengths being promoted by their supporters and if that is all you acknowledge you may end up with a T J Ford with your #1 pick.
What I am afraid of is another Jhonny Flynn.
The infatuation with drafting a PG is mind boggling. PG is the least of our problems. A fanbase that raves about about a potential trio going forward of Bayless, DeRozan and James Johnson is a sick fanbase and deserves the misery of our present and future.We desperately need a defensive centre and an SF who can defend and spread the floor.
The larger problem though is the aweful type of b-ball displayed in play-offs. PG’s are contributing to a street level b-ball that makes it pretty ugly to watch as they are no real skills displayed. Dallas with an old school PG and a phenomenal player in Dirk is an exception. Miami is trying to play the right way without a PG however it will take time.There is a lot of drama and story lines from a media point of view however -ball is really ugly. We’ll see if this new age PG lead NBA will catch on with the younger generation. Judging by the comments from this site it seem to be successful however I’m sure after a while the 40 ft. iso between PG’s who can drive unimpeded to the rim with nobody else involved it will become very boring.
I have to disagree with the trend here in that I have no problem taking Walker. If he has a really good work out and impresses people than why not take him. He’s a guy who led his team to a national championship and will likely at least be a bench guy in the NBA. If we are picking at three it really becomes a crap shoot. Kanter has a lot of potential but he may fit better at power forward and hasn’t played all year, Val is a project, Knight has no point skills, Fredette and Walker are too short, Biyombo has age questions, Terrance Jones is kind of a tweener…. the list goes on.
BC has said he doesn’t want another project player so why not take a guy who is already fairly experienced and see if he can make it in the NBA.
So, who exactly, is NOT a project player in this draft? Derrick Williams at SF, and I have a hunch that Kenneth Faried’s hustle & desire will translate well into the NBA, but we’d have to do something about either Andrea, Amir or Ed, like move Andrea to SF! Other than that, I’d still draft Jimmer for his 3 point shot, period. Everyone else looks wanting to me, and I’d trade out of this draft.
Bargnani at SF, really? Why not move him to SG while you’re at it.
Personally, I’d trade him if I could get equal value for him, but I think that BC will only do so reluctantly.
I honestly believe this supposed reluctance to trade Bargnani is being way over-played. Whenever you’re dealing with underachieving but high potential players, you’re unlikely to find equal value except when trading for another team’s problem. In addition, you’re not exactly dealing from a position of strength. Saying BC is against trading Bargnani for equal value just because he’s still here is like saying I’m against getting a better car just because I don’t have a better one yet. The right deal just hasn’t come along.
Colangelo drafted Bargnani. Both are Italian. I honestly believe that there’s a massive amount of reluctance involved here.
Since Andrea as a C IS a problem for us, ” trading for another team’s problem” seems only fair to me. The trick is to solve a bigger problem in doing it.
If AB is solving a bigger problem for them, then we ARE in a position of strength …
You lost me with your last two sentences, and it doesn’t look like anything is lost by it.
1. “Both are Italian.” I really don’t know what this has to do with anything. Did you see any reluctant in trading away Belinelli, another Italian? While I respect that this is simply your opinion, please note that your opinion is based in pure speculation.
2. Fair enough.
3. That’s a big IF. Do remember that Bargnani’s main value is as an offensive weapon, and not a very efficient one at that. Before you use IFs as the basis of your argument, please tell us what teams actually need an inefficient offensive player and defensive liability badly enough that it would actually give us a position of strength?
4. It’s fine. Most people argue BC is too proud to trade BC and use the absence of a trade as the foundation of the argument. You, however, completely surprised by using “Both are Italian.” Can’t really argue with that logic.
Edit: “too proud to trade AB”
Or PG where he could go all Ill Mago on other PGs using his height to pass over them or post them up he could be a 7 foot Jose. lol
when hustle and desire lacks talent it becomes renaldo balkman.
If we are drafting 4, 5, or 6 I would consider Walker but I think there is no question Irving, Williams, and Kanter are better draft prospects and should be taken ahead of Walker. Valanciunas and Walker are a toss up.
Agreed…
Best case scenerio: Aaron Brooks type of PG
Small, speedy PG who is able to score at a decent clip in the NBA, but isn’t really a starter. I see him as a career 6th man, and we already have one of those in Jerryd Bayless
Comparing Walker to Aaron Brooks in an argument to draft him doesn’t work. First of all, I REALLY don’t like Brooks. He’s simply an undersized SG that has no idea how to run an offense.
I thinking you need to lay off the pipe, mon.
Sure doesn’t seem to be much support for Walker as the PG that will lead the Raptors to contention. IMO it is no sure thing he’ll be as good as Bayless.
I understand if you can’t pronounce names properly… but, why can’t you spell them? Just copy-and-paste, right bro.
Balynins!!
2 problems with this article:
1. Height isn’t just used to post up smaller guards and to simplify it like that is just silly. Height and length (relative to your position) is always important.
2. Kanter is an inside/out offensive player which is very different to Andreas outside/in game. Comparing the 2 that way is apples to oranges. Kanter also rebounds which is something Bargs doesn’t do.
I’m really tired of defending myself in the dead of the Raptors off-season but here goes.
1. When did I say height alone means you can post-up? My exact words were: “I don’t think height is as much of a factor as people make it out to be because the NBA lacks great post-guards (and has for a long time) who can punish lack of size by taking you inside.”
Simplified: If you’re short, there’s a better chance people will try to post you up than if you’re tall. See Johnson v Rose matchups in the Bulls/Hawks series for the latest example. Understand? Good, glad we agree. Next, I’m saying that regardless if you’re short or tall or fat or skinny, the NBA doesn’t have many wing players that are great post-up threats, meaning that if anybody is fearing Walker getting punished in the post, they shouldn’t worry too much. Shooting over a shorter defender is another matter where Walker can be taken advantage of, but even the 6’3″ Jarrett Jack was susceptible to that. A proper close-out combined with lateral quicks can cancel that out.
2. Yes, Kanter is a different offensive player who is an improved rebounder. He’s also 18 years old and based on BC’s timeframe for big man development, we’ll have to wait 3-5 years to see a functioning product. My personal preference is not to suffer through his development. I’m not saying he’s going to be Kyrylo Fesenko bad, it’ll just take him a while. Besides, defense should be a premium quality of the next Raptors center and although Kanter is good, he’s not an anchor (based on what I’ve read and the limited amount of what I’ve seen).
”
He’s also 18 years old and based on BC’s timeframe for big man development, we’ll have to wait 3-5 years to see a functioning product.”
You mean like when Colangelo drafted Amare straight out of high school and he was an All-Star by year 3? I’m sorry, but this is a ridiculous statement. WHat matters is the player, not who drafts him. If Colangelo had drafted Blake Griffin, would it still have taken him 3-5 years to see a functioning product?
Kanter is a fairly polished product, so what makes you think he’ll take 3-5 years to becoming a functioning product.
Kanter is fairly polished? Under what definiton- Nike Summit game 2 years ago?lol
He hasn’t played organized basketball in over 2 years add in the lockout and make it almost 3 years.
Kanter is a project- point blank, think Steve Hawes (76ers).
Draft services are starting to rate Bismack Biyombo ahead of Kanter and his knee issues.
The last thing the Rap’s need to do is to draft an International player either go Leonard, Walker, Knight, Thompson or trade the pick if the Rap’s don’t move up in the Lottery.
That 3-5 years development was some more BC BullChit that succeeded in giving Barg’s development a 5 year buffer zone that some fans sucked up like a “rebuild” milkshake.
Now Kanter hasn’t played in two years? What happened to one year? That didn’t suit your argument?
And I’d call him fairly polished because he can score inside and and out, has good footwork for a player his age and has a high IQ.
And maybe you could tell me what knee issues you are referring to, because so far I haven’t seen ANY evidence that he’s suffered anything more than knee tendinitis. If you can show me otherwise, I’d love to see it.
As for the comparison, I’m assuming you mean SPENCER Hawes. Spencer Hawes was a decent, yet unexciting prospect who had a fairly polished offensive game, but simply didn’t have the potential to be much more than a serviceable center, which is what he is. I’m not quite sure what you mean by him being a project, though, since he was a starter for the Kings in his second year and averaged 11.4 ppg and 7 rpg.
I’ll ignore the racist comment about the Raptors not drafting an international player and move on to the fact that Kanter IS a fairly polished player, especially for an 18 year old, but even if he takes a year or two, who cares. Do you really think the Raptors are ogling to be contending any time soon, or are you one of those fans that just want them to compete and would rather throw some veterans on the team instead of being patient and building like Oklahoma has?
Kanter played at Stoneridge Preparatory in 2009-10 I forgot about that I just recall reading that he was having trouble finding a HS to attend. Fyi I don’t make up particulars to suit my argument although I’m not infalliable.
We’ll see how fairly polished his game is once he gets in the NBA- he is a project not a refined player in my mind.
About his knees, I read that he had arthroscopic surgery 2 and half years ago.
The pre draft medicals should clear up any Kanter knee issues but I don’t want any players with injury issues before they even have played in the NBA.
Spencer Hawes, Steve Hawes is his uncle, is with hard work Kanter’s NBA ceiling in my mind.
Not wanting to draft an International player is racist? lmfao@urbullchitsucka
Isn’t Bismack Biyombo from Africa? Recognize.
I would like the new ownership to blow this team up- no one is untradeable, and compete asap fuck a propagandize rebuild which is nothing more than a BC pr spin on losing.
Trying to be like OKC (Seattle Super Sonics) will leave the Rap’s in the Lottery as there aren’t any KD’s or Westbrook’s on this Raptors team and the Rap’s sure aren’t going to find one in the 2006 draft.
Patience is for waiting rooms, buddy.
Obviously no one wants to draft a player with knee issues, but let’s not judge a player before all the information is in.
What I’m confused about is that you claim you don’t want a project, yet want Biyombo. Who is more of a project than he is? Yet he’ll be able to contribute on defense, but have you taken a look at Thabeet’s career so far?
And no matter what the Raptors do, they will most likely be in the lottery next year. Unless you are going to grab some veterans that will help create a mediocre team with a low ceiling, you’re going to need to build slowly.
Did I say I want Biyombo?
No.lol
You, w/o merit, tried to label my above comment as being racist in nature and I showed you that it wasn’t- even if Bismack wasn’t in this draft I still wouldn’t want any of the International players (Donatas Motiejunas, Enes Kanter, Jan Vesely) in this draft & it has nothing to do nothing to do with race- point blank.
Whatever moves the Rap’s make or don’t make outside of the upcoming NBA draft is as of yet to be determined until the sale of MLSE shares is finalized plus depending on the state of the lockout post June 30 may just make it all a waiting & debating game until a new CBA is bargained out.
Build slowly- sounds like alot more losing kiddo, like I said before patience is for waiting rooms- not the NBA.
It sounded like you wanted
Biyombo. My mistake.
And you stated the last thing the Raptors need to do is draft an international player. It may not technically be racist, but it’s certainly in the same family. There’s really no way around that. If you had said that you don’t like any of the international players that are in this draft, that would be different, but that’s not at all what you said.
It’s like saying the last thing the Raptors need is a center, when that’s obviously not true. If you say that you don’t like any of the centers in this draft, that’s a completely different statement. It’s not semantics.
And barring a miracle, there’s no way the Raptors are going to do anything remotely close to contend next year. They don’t have the pieces to trade for a great player and still have enough left to surround them with a decent roster, they don’t have the cap room or the attractiveness to get make a big splash on the free agent market, and the talent they do have isn’t good or old enough to take the team anywhere themselves.
No matter what you do, this team is going to probably lose more games than it wins next season. It’s what you do when you are losing that matters. You can go out and try and win as many games as you can, which will probably be a difference between 30 and 35 wins, and sacrifice some of the future to try and make a run at the playoffs, or you can realize that those 5 wins aren’t going to mean squat in 5 years and it’s better that you make sure you focus on how good the team is going to be in 3-5 years, not next year.
The Raptors have tried to go for immediate gratification for far too long. They traded youth and draft picks to surround Vince with veterans, which got them to the second round of the playoffs (great!), but also meant that they had a short window and the team had peaked long before Vince had.
With Bosh, Colangelo went out and got Parker and Garbajosa, which helped them win the Atlantic, but it wasn’t sustainable.
You know what…….fuck you- point blank str8 up & down, save your facetious racist accusations for someone else you insecure mofo’er.
Don’t blame me. You’re the one who said it. I just pointed it out.
What you pointed out was some make believe bullchit from deep within your insecure being as comprehension is a mental extension just as insinuation is like masturbation- it only gets you off, buddy.
Fyi- Bismack Biyombo is an African and an International player in the NBA draft and I don’t want him in the TDot- do the full math not your self serving untenable racist labeling half math- mirror check at your neck.
People who toss around then try to rationalize their lies with “who me?” are a sad excuse of a human being, just plain sad.
Jumping to conclusions without examining all the facts just like the emotional female that your are- nothing but 100% pure balderdash coming from out of your ass- you are what you think and your shit does stink Lil Timmy now go wipe your ass.lol
Wow, I really touched a nerve, there, didn’t I. I simply pointed out that the statement was racist (or xenophobic, or intolerant), which it was.
It’s not the first time I’ve heard that sort of talk on this site. In fact I had a discussion with one person who couldn’t understand the problem with saying that Europeans were soft basketball players. Or that they were bad defenders.
I’ve met a whole lot of racist people in my life but I’ve never met one person who thought he was racist. I’m not saying you are, but the statement you made was. Pure and simple. That’s not jumping to conclusions. It’s simply stating a fact.
On a side note, again with this Timmy thing when someone wants to try and insult me. How is that insulting? I don’t understand. It’s my name. Oooh, you added an `my’ to it! Actually, my full name is Timothy, so you actually just added an `m’. I don’t find the letter `m’ insulting.
Lil Timmy throwing around baseless slander with no candor and still trying to rationalize it with facetious logic- I think therefore I am.lol
You remind me of FoxNews mixed with BC- full of self serving BullChit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpJ9AimN9c8
Paul Mooney On Racism & Facetious Claims Thereof
Fyi – Racism is prejudice in action.
It has nothing to do with me not wanting any International players with the Rap’s Lottery draft pick- especially after the Bargnani debacle. I prefer to go the safe route and draft known US talent not hyped up International talent- point blank.
One can sit on their porch for years talking racial nonsense but if all one does is talk then that’s all it is- talk. Now when an individual puts those words/thoughts into action via racist Laws and enforces them now that’s racism.
Am I creating Laws denying anyone the right to vote or marry based on their race, ethnicity? Denying employment, housing, schooling based on race? Burning crosses in yards? Bombing churches? Hanging people from trees aka Strange Fruit Picnic? Enslaving people? Committing genocide?
You have alot of mental growing up to do Lil Timmy- sit up straight kiddo.
Maybe you could tell me what baseless slander I apparently threw around. Tell me what part of what I said was false. You seem to think that I called you a racist and I did not. I said it was a racist statement, and despite what your Youtube clip might say, it was. If it’s not what you meant, then fine. But it is what you said.
And racism, according to dictionary.com, is…
1.a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to rule others.2.a policy, system of government, etc., based upon orfostering such a doctrine; discrimination.3.hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
Just so you know, that last one applies to what you said. You feel that because of one player the Raptors drafted, that all International players should be off limits. Even if it means drafting a less skilled player. It’s either racist or it’s simply a bad decision.
As for mentally growing up, you might want to take a look at some of the comments you’ve left before you start throwing stones. You might break your own house.
This article doesn’t leave a lot of room for disagreement and goes counter to general consensus, which is often wrong, but you can’t seriously be surprised you have to defend this article even if it proves ot be right…
You would not be defending if it made sense. First off you start with the presumption that a lot of people agree with you…that doesn’t seem to be true. Secondly you want to gamble on a midget with a high pick. This is basektball you know. Lastly, you continue with all of this pg talk but you can look at a team like Denver, who has TWO really good pg’s. That is not always the answer to a long playoff run. I would rather continue to see how Bayless develops with this team. Let this young group develop chemistry. Bring in a big man. If John Wall was unable to get the Wizards any further than he did, Kemba will certainly not do much for the Raptors. Your suggestion is a gamble with a high pick and the team has better options.
draft board
kanter
kemba
knight
draft board
kyrie irving
derrick williams
trade the pick
good article, its the NBA, you know these euro bigs are going to have trouble adjusting while Kemba will be dropping 30
sure one of them will probably be legit in the long run, but do you trust BC to pick the right one ?
you can clearly see Kemba’s speed and energy in college, and that is the direction of this team. i want kemba as well. waterbug pgs can cause fits, he has that potential. nothing wrong about this selection. derozan, kemba, james johnson, ed davis, amir for now at center. two long guys as the last line of defense is better then the shit we have been putting out there since oakley and davis. get the center in next years draft.
Guys like Walker are a dime a dozen. There are always combo, shoot-first guards available. Why waste a top 5 pick?
Rather get the center in this year’s draft if he has the potential to be a player and it looks like there are at least three prospects with that kind of potential.
To me, it flushes AB out into the open. Ed and Amir are good, hard-working players, just over-matched most times at center.
Bringing in a tough young big puts four players in line for time that should go to just three. I don’t think any of us doubts that Bargnani has the ability to be more of a complete player than he showed last season.
He’s good, not great offensively. He may never be a good help defender, but when motivated the can rebound and play man-to-man defense. Losing playing time can be motivational.
Jose and Bayless aren’t top notch at the point, but they’re OK, particularly in tandem, better than the defensive void at the five. Next year may present an opportunity for a young PG stud.
There’s a huge out-cry to trade AB. Yes some NBA GM may begin drinking heavily and trade you gold for tin. Unless that happens, the best alternative to allowing Andrea to gobble up pasta, but not rebounds is to squeeze him for playing time with the presence of a good, young, physical center.
Sorry, but when you’re paying a guy $42 million over the next four years, you don’t want to sit him on the bench and hope that “motivates” him. Especially when he’s had a history of struggling when coming off the bench.
Bargnani is 25 years old and his trade value is only going to go down as he gets older and it becomes more and more apparent that he has come pretty close to reaching his ceiling.
There is far more downside to keeping Bargnani than trading him this summer.
Tim, you’re assuming Bargnani isn’t going to respond well to fewer minutes.
Personally, I don’t think he has the conditioning or attention span to handle long stretches of playing time effectively.
If he gets pushed to the wall, I think he can play better than he has. His failures coming off the bench were early in his career. Maybe he still can’t handle that role. Maybe he can.
IF he can provide decent scoring and SOME rebounding and defence in fewer minutes, he’s got to have more trade value than he has now. He might be even good enough to keep around in that role.
If someone wants him bad enough to give something of value for him, by all means trade him but, seriously — do you think us part-time Joes at RR are miles ahead of NBA teams in knowing what AB is — and isn’t?
As the perennial ‘anchor’ in one of the NBA’s weakest defensive teams, I think the only thing worse than paying him 42 million to sit on the bench might be paying him 42 mill to be our starting center for the next four years.
If you trade him, salaries will have to equal out. So you’re getting someone else’s 42 million dollar headache coming back. They might make a mistake and underestimate their player. On the other hand, AB is talented enough that on the right team, in the right role, it could backfire big time on Toronto.
Squeezing him for time has it’s perils, so does every other strategy, including trading him.
”
Tim, you’re assuming Bargnani isn’t going to respond well to fewer minutes.”
Where were you a few years ago? I mean, okay, there’s always the possibility that what happened before won’t happen now, but you can’t possibly say Tim had no basis for that opinion. Just look at 2007-2008 and 2008-2009. His shooting as abysmal off the bench, and that’s not very good when it’s the one thing he brings.
I was watching a young player with a lot of unfounded arrogance and very little true confidence founder when things didn’t go his way.
Has he progressed? Either the Raptors continue to spoon feed his every need or confront him with reality — play hard or sit. When you think about it, it’s not really a new or radical approach and it seems to have worked well for different sports teams for a long time.
That was tried under Sam Mitchell and Bargnani didn’t respond well to it.
Well, you don’t actually need to take back $42 million back, just in the area of $9 million per season. That could be one player with on year left or a couple of players that add up to that. And you don’t necessarily have to match salaries if you trade him to a team that is under the cap.
As for it backfiring, I’m not quite sure it could. If he does somehow, after five full years in the league, suddenly break out, then that doesn’t necessarily mean it backfired. It might mean that he simply found a certain set of circumstances that work for him, something that never seemed to be in Toronto. And worrying that a player like Bargnani might, despite common sense, suddenly break out as a reason not to trade him is a bit ridiculous. Why trade ANYONE, then? Miami’s draft pick that was traded for James Johnson could end up turning into an All Star. History says otherwise, but there’s about the same chance as Bargnani suddenly “getting it” after five full years.
Well, you don’t actually need to take back $42 million back, just in the area of $9 million per season. That could be one player with on year left or a couple of players that add up to that. And you don’t necessarily have to match salaries if you trade him to a team that is under the cap.
As for it backfiring, I’m not quite sure it could. If he does somehow, after five full years in the league, suddenly break out, then that doesn’t necessarily mean it backfired. It might mean that he simply found a certain set of circumstances that work for him, something that never seemed to be in Toronto. And worrying that a player like Bargnani might, despite common sense, suddenly break out as a reason not to trade him is a bit ridiculous. Why trade ANYONE, then? Miami’s draft pick that was traded for James Johnson could end up turning into an All Star. History says otherwise, but there’s about the same chance as Bargnani suddenly “getting it” after five full years.
Nine million per season over four years works out to a pretty good chunk of cap space.
Yes you might get an expiring contract back. Someone in their last year (or two) who has been vastly overpaid.
It still MIGHT be the best way to go, but let’s face it, you’re basically giving the player away. Worked well with Peja, eh.
Again, you’re saying AB has no chance to be a productive player in any role, on any team under any coach. You may be right. BC may pull the trigger on a great deal and I hope he does. This is the NBA. Amazing things happen.
Barring a Brinks job, what I’m suggesting is change the situation if you can’t profitably change the player. Start AB if that’s what works best, but put him on a short leash. When his interest rate drops, his heart rate soars and he screams at the thought of contact — get him out of there and play the kid. It would give us an option we didn’t have last year.
Blowing things up is fun. Big bang. Lots of excitement. You’re left with a lot of little pieces,though, that are very hard to mold into something useful.
AB is irritating, underachieving and can not be left with the same carte blanche he’s had in the past. He is not totally worthless, however and in most trades that’s the value you’ll likely get back — nada.
Hope you’re right and I’m wrong but it ain’t written in stone.
I’m not suggesting blowing the team up, but it’s pretty apparent to me that Bargnani is not someone who should be a part of the future of the franchise. He’s got far too many shortcomings that make it incredibly difficult to have him on the floor for long periods, and he’s making too much for too long to make him a deep bench player. Also, he’s become too much of a target of fans.
Now I’m not saying he can’t be productive. He has been productive, but I just question what type of role he can play on a good team. There is always a place for a player with Bargnani’s skills, and teams always will take a chance on guys like him, but that’s usually not good teams.
I don’t think it’s at the point where you have to give him away. He’s a 25 year old, mobile 7 footer who can score in a variety of ways. Just as there are Raptor fans who believe his lack of defense and rebounding can be hidden, I’m sure there are teams out there that feel the same way.
I do think he needs to be traded, and as soon as possible. His stock isn’t getting any higher and the older he gets the less teams will be willing to take a chance on him.
You get back for him what you get back. Whether it be a lottery pick and a couple of players or whatever.
No, you’re not suggesting blowing up the whole team. You’re suggesting blowing up, in your words — ‘ a 25 year old , mobile 7 footer who can score in a variety of ways’.– that is ‘ ship him out. Take what you can get, box tops if you have to.’
It may be the right course. The alternative would be the Sam Mitchell 11 approach. Make him accountable and before you say ‘ it didn’t work first time around’ — maybe Sam didn’t last long enough to really tell and MAYBE that was when little Andrea learned he didn’t really have to put out.
Make him play for his time. He has talent, that’s obvious. THEN trade him if you get a good offer. It’s more likely to happen when he’s playing well than lounging around with the Primo Pasta flu.
I’m suggesting that the Raptors get the monkey off their back and cut out their addiction to a player who simply does not seem to be good for them. Keep in mind I was just as adamant about getting rid of Villanueva when he was a Raptor for the very same reasons. Guys like that are teases who tend to do more harm to a team than good. They have loads of offensive skill, but don’t have the fortitude to do the things they need to do to win. Loads of team cut and run on guys like these. The good teams just tend to do it quicker than the bad teams.
And the problem with keeping Bargnani is twofold. The first is that he breeds a type of atmosphere on the team. The team needs to remake it’s identity and Bargnani prevents that from happening. Secondly, as I stated, as he gets older, his trade value goes down. Why hold onto an asset that is going down inn value? That makes very little sense. There’s a CHANCE it could go back up, but there’s a far, far greater chance that it will continue to go down. The upside is not worth the downside of keeping him.
You can change the player or change the atmosphere. Some coaches are quite good at it, particularly when backed by the GM.
AGAIN, if a good trade is there, that will help the team, of course pull the trigger. You, however, are suggesting they dump one of their starters, no matter what comes back. You aren’t coming right out and saying it, but it’s evident that’s what you mean.
If they get value back a trade makes sense. If they don’t, how can his value go down? You are suggesting a salary dump, kind of like Peja for a 25 year old, mobile seven footer.
Sorry Tim, doesn’t make sense to me.
I’m not suggesting trading him for nothing, but I am suggesting trading him now. And I do think he has trade value. I just think it will continue to go down (last summer was the time to trade him, in my opinion).
Trading him right now is not simply due to his declining trade value, though, but because he is literally detrimental to the team. And not only because he seems to have a negative impact when he’s on the floor, but because of what he apparently refuses to do. It can be infectious.
As for the coach issue, it seems to be the latest excuse for Bargnani. I’ve never encountered player with so many excuses. Maybe a coach might help, but it’s been five years and two very different coaches and he hasn’t changed. And it’s not as if there was an indication he could be a good rebounder or defender when he was drafted. He’s NEVER been good at either of those things. EVen before he played a minute in the NBA. Those were the two main concerns about him when he was drafted and that was why I was against drafting him in the first place.
Again, Sam Mitchell’s approach didn’t work because the boss back AB not Sam.
If he gives Triano, or whoever, free rein to sit him when the effort isn’t there, it would go a long way towards changing the entitlement attitude of the Toronto Raptors. Bargnani has been the poster boy for that attitude. Make him accountable and the message is clear to everyone else.
I’m not making an excuse for AB, but an ultimatum — play hard or sit.
We both agree there needs to be a change concerning TO’s tallest free standing prima donna. You’re suggesting a fire sale. I’m not.
That should read ‘because the boss backed AB…..’. I’ve been reading Overeems posts too much.
Bargnani played 2+ years with Mitchell, and Bargnani didn’t respond well under the tough love approach. If Colangelo fully backed this approach you think Bargnani would have responded better? What makes you say that?
My big problem is that Bargnani simply isn’t that good of a player to be trying to jump through hoops to make him try and fit in. He’s a good scorer, but not a great one and doesn’t score efficiently. He will never be a good rebounder or defender because he doesn’t seem to have the skills to do either one consistently.
And, again, I’m not suggesting a fire sale. You can try and trade someone without doing a fire sale. You’re being dramatic, here. Trade the guy, but get as much as you can for him.
No, actually you’re being evasive and a touch intractable. When you decide to trade someone period,without regarding what comes back — that is a fire sale.
I would like to see Bargnani moved IF they can get value for him. What you’re suggesting is a salary dump of a 25 year old player. It is not a sound strategy.
Also, when SM coached TO, Andrea might not have hit the giddy heights he’s reached under JT, but the TEAM fared much better. Remember the COY thing?
It was apparent to me, after Sam’s dismissal that BC was backing his young ‘superstar.’ I’m sure it was apparent to you as well. Bargnani probably had a pretty good idea that uncle Brian was backing him and that no real change was needed in his approach to the game, being somewhat closer to the situation than either of us.
Sounds like BC is having second thoughts on that strategy. If the coach demands effort and is backed by upper management it just might sink in.
Since you have no idea what might come back in a trade, your idea of ‘trade him regardless’ isn’t sound. Trying to make him accountable for his playing time has it’s downside. So does dumping him.
Toronto did half decently during one season when Bargnani was a rookie and backed up the center position. And they got bounced in the first round. I’m pretty sure half decently is less than what I would want from the team.
And it’s it’s not glaringly obvious by now that Bargnani being on the team is a problem that needs to be rectified by trading him, then it never will be.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
It’s been five years.
Is it just me, or is this response really narrow. I mean literally, lol.
I’m not suggesting trading Bargnani to the first taker. That would be a fire sale. I’m simply suggesting trading him. And I’m pretty sure he’ll get, at least, a half decent return. So it wouldn’t be a salary dump.
A first round playoff loss would be soaring with eagles compared to last year. Sam would be COY again if they brought in him back and he reached those ‘heights’.
It would be a great start if you build on it. You can build on it by making everyone including your first offensive option accountable on the boards and at the other end. Bargnani is not the only defensive slacker on Toronto he’s just the face of the franchise in that aspect.
There are three basic options — leave him alone; make him accountable; trade him. You are saying the third one is the only one. You are hoping for a good return but you are also advocating a fire sale if necessary. Fess up.
I’m saying the second option might lay better groundwork for one of the other two. Might not, but that’s what makes a horse race or a basketball team.
Jonathan, We have narrowed the scope of this discussion to allow you to better focus on your goal at hand — supporting your hero, Tim W. Keep up the good work.
I’m continuing this at the bottom…
I am sure there are places that offer really inexpensive English language classes in Toronto! It would help in understanding what the hell you are trying to say.
Walker is going to struggle in the NBA. He’s undersized, and doesn’t have an elite skill to speak of. He’s not a great shooter, or a distributor, or a defender, nor does he possess freakish speed or athleticism. In all honesty, I feel like his stock has benefitted a great deal from playing in such a weak college season this year.
His ceiling is Travis Best in my opinion. He will have the potential to be effective in short bursts playing on a teams second unit but I don’t feel like that’s the type of player that we should be targeting with the 3rd overall pick.
If we happen to fall into the 5 or 6 range, I’m still not sold on the pick. There are much more glaring holes on this roster than at the one spot, and while I acknowledge that rebuilding teams should take on the “best player available” strategy, I think it only applies when said player has the potential to be great.
For the record, if we have a pick in the 4-6 range, I also recommend Kemba.
Maybe he amounts to nothing, but his upside is star potential. He is lightning quick, can shoot, and is a winner. He put UConn on his back all year.
He came up big defensively, on the boards, and on last shot situations. He is all heart. There is no way, in my opinion, that you can like basketball, but not like Kemba Walker.
Maybe his NBA career comes up short, but lets be frank, this draft isn’t exactly full of surefire hall of famers, is it.
I cant remember seeing a point guard do what he did all year….. Isiah Thomas did actually….D Rose maybe? But even Rose had Joey Dorsey in the paint.
D Rose didn’t get a National Title (Though he came close) but yeah, thats good company, right?
Walker is overrated. Irving>Walker
I wouldn’t bet the home on having a shot at drafting Irving.
if we get irving, grab him, otherwise pick kanter and draft Myck Kabongo next year.
Honestly, Irving’s court vision > the extra athleticism Walker has at this age. Irving is 3 years younger, will develop much more muscle and grow into his abilities well. I’d place my bet on him.
Walker is so short he is a member of the lollipop guild.
Enough of this 6ft crap. If you look at him when standing beside other players for comparison, it is easy to see he is around 5’8″. Kanter at #3 please.
Kemba Walker = Nate Robinson ??
Not a fan of Kemba Walker … not much confidence in any of the likely lottery picks in this draft. Biyombo maybe.
I’d like to see the Raptors trade the pick.
A Bargnani + top five pick would be an intriguing trade package as could DerRozan + pick … trade for a superior individual talent … or maybe just trade down and pick an additional asset or two for future use. Maybe pick up a late first round pick and draft T.Honeycutt or C.Singleton. I don’t know what trade makes the most sense.
Hey! Somebody relevant shares my viewpoint:
Dime: Heading into the NBA Draft, what players excite you? Who do you think would fit in with your current Raptors squad?
DD: It’s tough to say, but I like Kemba Walker’s game. I played against him in high school. Just the way he plays, I think he’ll make a major impact in the League using screen and rolls and being able to shoot and break down guards and everything. I like Kyrie Irving too, he’ll definitely be big. But I think there are just a handful of guys though.
http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/showthread.php?6100-DeRozan-DimeMag.com-Interview
The thing with drafting Walker or Knight is that neither 1 of them is currently better than Bayless or is guaranteed to be better than Bayless in the future.
DWill or bust as Irving has a potential injury issue with his toe.
This draft is 2006 all over again and the Rap’s have a bullchit scouting department led by- drumrole please…….Jim Kelly.
its all happening again, high pick, weak draft, best player preference, euro big man with female name
Haha.
I love all the draft experts on here who say how shit Walker is going to be….Probally the same morons who ripped me when I said Steph Curry will be a solid pro….All you heard was about his weaknesses…Granted everyplayer has weaknesses but Kemba Walker could be a star….He could be a great player….I see Walker can score in bunches and basically single handed won a his team a title….But sure all you moron/experts know everything……Kemba Walker has as good as a shot as anyone of of being the best player in this draft….To all the haters don’t allways focus on the negatives anytime a player has dominated at every level like Walker there is a real legit chance he becomes a great player!!!
for every steph curry vs. ricky rubio there is dwight howard vs. emeka okafor.
fyi steph curry’s status is still debatable. for all the offense he brings this guy is like a paris hilton on d, a big hole.
“as much as I appreciate the strides Jerryd Bayless made towards the end of the season when Calderon was injured, I don’t ever see him becoming a legitimate scoring or distribution threat, and definitely not a player that commands double teams”
That is a joke! How can you just make an assumption on a player when they have never even been given a legitimate chance to prove themselves? Bayless has a TON of talent, and if you look at his numbers as a starter this season they were right up there with some of the top pgs in the league. Not to mention the raps were also much more competetive when he was starting. They need to let Bayless be the starter next season so they can make a legit decision on him. The biggest mistake a team could ever do is just assume a player isnt good enough without giving them an opportunity like your doing right now! Especially one with lots of potential like Bayless. If Derrick Williams is on the board when the raps draft 3rd they need to take him no question.
Lewis the Raps don’t draft third…that is still to be determined at the lottery….D Will will go 1 or 2…
I hate the idea of drafting Walker after such a brutal season, but I think it is the best choice if we don’t bounce into the top two. Nobody outside of Irving and Williams really interests me (because I kept tuning in this season thinking we had a chance to add a budding All-Star for 2011-2012) so the Raps might as well go for the guy who isn’t afraid of the moment and has put a team on his shoulders before… that has to be worth something.
I’ve got to say I hate the “making the playoffs would be great considering where the Raptors are now” argument. It’s settling. I don’t believe in settling when building a team. You need to have a good foundation before you start trying to make the playoffs, otherwise you’re limiting your potential as a team.
And I say again, I don’t understand the desire to go to such great lengths to try and keep Bargnani involved on the team. He’s simply not that good a player. He’s a good scorer, but below average a literally everything else. And he’s never been effective at helping his team win, even when the team itself was winning. It just seems like far too much work and effort very very little, if any, payoff.
Read on. Making the playoffs is a great place to start. You need to build on it.
You don’t accumulate wealth by jettisoning assets unless you replace them with superior assets. What will they be offered for AB, since it’s pretty apparent that he’s now available at the right price? You and I don’t really know. Let’s see what Colangelo or his replacement come up with (or don’t).
Making players accountable isn’t going to great lengths, it’s running a competitive basketball team. Keep him involved if he’s productive. Ajinca him if he isn’t. Trade him if you get a worthwhile return.
If you can’t get anything good back for him, benching him won’t destroy his trade value because it’s already been proven him that he has none. Then your ‘ must trade’ scenario is a salary dump or means taking back another ‘problem’.
Making the playoffs is only a great start if you have the pieces to build on it. A lot of teams get to the playoffs, but don’t have the talent to build on that. That’s mediocrity at it’s most mediocre. And it’s a franchise killer.
And if Bargnani is an asset, then obviously you wouldn’t be jettisoning him because you’d get something back for him. Either he’s valuable or he’s not. If he’s not, and you don’t get much back, then he’s not much of an asset to begin with, is he? So getting rid of him is jettisoning an asset. It’s cutting loose dead weight.
And I agree with making players accountable, but some people keeping trying to figure out how to use Bargnani when he’s not really that good to begin with. I don’t understand that. Bargnani’s had five years, and lots of chances. I don’t see the point in giving him more because I see no way that he’ll change who he is as a player.
You do see him as dead weight and you’d unload him for whatever you could get — a fire sale. Thank you for admitting it.
You could be right. I just don’t think you are.
He’s not a franchise player but he’s not, to the best of my knowledge a crackhead or a career criminal. He’s a reasonably talented player who prefers to shun the less complex chores on a basketball court.
If management’s only solution is to unload him for whatever they can get, then they’ll likely get what they deserve — almost nothin.
I say draft a young big and let Ed, Amir, the rookie and AB compete for court time unless someone makes you an offer you can’t refuse.
What is your insistence on calling it a fire sale? And what’s your insistence in putting words in my mouth? I said that if the Raptors CAN’T get anything for him during the summer, which I said they should be able to, then he’s obviously not an asset and is dead weight.
And lots of players have been put on the trading block and gotten a decent return. It happens all the time. What Bargnani’s trade value is unknown, but if he’s got none now, then there is almost no chance of that going up if he’s relegated to the bench, which would happen if he’s held accountable.
And the problem with drafting another big and making four players compete for playing time is that there’s simply not enough playing time to go around. Especially not if you want the young players to develop and flourish. Davis should be averaging 30+ mpg, but won’t if Amir, Bargnani and, say, Kanter are all competing for minutes.
Usually agree with Arse but I have no idea why we’d draft Kemba Walker and I pray we don’t.
Kanter before Walker 100 times over.
It’s you that have insisted AB should be traded period. All I’ve said is that should only happen if Toronto gets a reasonable return. Barring that, play him in whatever role that his overall play dictates.
Yes they can get SOMETHING for him. Of course they can get something for him. Will it be of equal value? If not, you have a fire sale.
You are advocating a very narrow minded strategy. That’s your right. Just don’t insist that I agree with it. I don’t.
A four-man rotation works at the start of the season. It allows insurance against the inevitable injuries that occur. It lets you work your young big into the lineup gradually, letting him get used to the league. Kanter, Valanciunas and Biyombo are all pretty green.
Finally, if you have the horrible problem of four bigs playing extremely well and not enough PT, THEN trade AB unless you get an unbeatable offer for one of the others.
Once more, slowly — if they can’t get good value for him, why trade him? Make him accountable and if he responds, you win whether you keep him or ship him.
This ain’t rocket science.
Sorry Dan, I was, of course, replying to the unsinkable Tim W.